You meant two months before the election, I’m sure – two days before the 9/11 attacks. Yes, the Disneyfication of Times Square, for better or for worse, was almost entirely completed during the Giuliani administration. Lindsay attempted it and some groundwork was performed during Koch’s reign, but this was Rudy’s baby and all Bloomberg is doing at this point is dotting the “i” in Disney. I really don’t have much of a problem with favoring pedestrians over vehicular traffic – but then, I don’t have to navigate the streets of Manhattan for a living.
Sure, the ‘70’s and '80’s saw a much seedier and dangerous Duece and Times Square, and, yes, as one whose mispent youth included countless hours in the area’s numerous movie houses, I do look back on that period with rose-tinted glasses. Regardless, I miss the character and honky-tonk atmosphere – the unique sense of place, not to mention the open space of the old Times Square (never mind Disneyfication, what about the canyonization of the streets with all those new glass office towers).
No doubt that home video and on-demand cable services would have eventually doomed the grindhouses and porn palaces to oblivion anyway and the area would have needed some sort of reinvention. It’s just so very disappointing that the overarching concept for Times Square’s makeover has been theme-park plasticity and ersatz nostalgia.
Do I miss the crime and grime? Not particularly, but how about a little urban authenticity? Reminds me a little of what has happened to the South Street Seaport. They essentially built a shopping mall out of it and then kicked the Fulton Fish Market (the area’s raison d'etre) out to the Bronx! At least while the Fish Market was still there, the place had a real and vital functionality and sense of history. But, I guess the tourists couldn’t stand the smell of fish while sipping their cappucinos and posing for photos in front of the Brooklyn Bridge, and so the market was consigned to the bowels of one of the city’s most far flung industrial areas! And so it goes…
Nice slap by Leeser at his archtiectural forebears. I think the main facade is a rather handsome one and I’m hoping that they retain the columns and Latin inscriptions. I’m sure whatever architectural significance the original interior once might have held was likely shorn away years ago.
Is the Empire’s IMAX conversion a real lie like most multiplex conversions? I know this didn’t open with an IMAX facility, but I would have thought this might have been one of the better conversions around town.
Hey saps! Sorry I haven’t gotten around to taking a pic yet, but been busy of late. I did actually pass by one recent evening, but did not have my good camera on me. The lighting effect of the new neon along the vertical is very subtle and I don’t think a cell phone camera would do it justice. The letters F A N T A S Y along the blade are backlit with neon to provide a reddish glow behind the letters that helps define each character. I don’t want to make any empty promises, but I’ll try to get over there sometime this weekend to snap a couple of shots.
Hey techman707… The depictions in those designer renderings don’t always match the reality of the final finished work. I think the only drawing that represents the DeMille is the one looking up at the chandeliers hanging from the ceiling oval. The rendering gives the appearance of a classical design for the lighting fixtures. The photos I’ve seen of the Famous Dave’s interior at the old DeMille reveal a much more garish looking interior with chandeliers of neon tubing spelling out the name of the establishment. Since it is a restaurant, the lighting is also very dark in these photos so it is difficult to make out fine details.
Thanks, neeb. I love that site. By the way, the photo at the bottom of that page is actually of the other Roxy porn house that was immediately adjacent to the New Amsterdam Theatre – and does not have a listing here yet.
I’m surprised that there is no mention in the introductory remarks regarding the NYC premiere and reserved-seat engagement of D.W. Griffith’s controversial epic “Birth of a Nation.” I know it’s been referred to in the comments section – and I believe an image of the opening ad was once provided – but seems that this is a significant enough bit of history for the theater (and, indeed, the history of cinema!) to warrant inclusion in the introduction.
While the film had already been exhibited the previous month in Los Angeles, the Liberty was secured for its NYC premiere on March 3rd, 1915, according to most sources. The top ticket price (in the loge) for evening showings was $2.00 – astronomical for the time. That price was reduced to $1.00 for matinees.
An article from the NY Times, dated January 2nd, 1916, notes that the film’s engagement at the Liberty was scheduled to conclude with that evening’s showing, after an unprecedented run of 45 weeks. The passage about the film reads as follows (all dates, numbers AND punctuations per the original publication):
“After two showings today Griffith’s picture, ‘The Birth of a Nation,’ will end an engagement in the Liberty Theatre that has never been approached in filmland. The picture was first shown there on March 2 of last year, and the man whose business it is to get things in the paper about it has assembled these interesting figures. The run lasted 45 weeks, with a total of 620 consecutive exhibitions. Simultaneously the pitcure was shown in outlying theatres 6266 times. In round numbers 616,000 persons saw the film at the Liberty, while adding those who witnessed it in other metropolitan playhouses brought the figure up to 872,000. This is about one-seventh of the population of New York, and, computing the admission average at 75 cents, $600,000 was paid by New Yorkers for the privilege. Simultaneously the picture was being shown in the larger cities of the country, and it is estimated 5,000,000 have already seen it.”
The Times' calculations don’t quite add up – 872,000 patrons at an average of .75 cents would tally to $654,000 paid admissions for the NY metropolitan area. Also appears they botched the date of the premiere as March 2nd, rather than March 3rd. If the numbers for the Liberty are to be believed (616,000 patrons over 620 showings), then the average attendance per show would have been near capactity at over 990 persons. Of course, coming from what appears to have been a publicist for the theater, I believe these figures should be taken with the proverbial grain of salt.
Comments allude to there having been three theater to bear the name St. James within the hamlet. I can only find listings for the original and this – the third incarnation. No information on the middle child?
Appears the auditorium was more or less stripped down to be reused as a Famous Dave’s Bar-b-que restaurant. The full vaulted height of the auditorium space remains as does, reportedly, much of the streamlined ceiling decor from its DeMille days. Of course, brightly lit neon chandeliers have been added, which probably obscure a lot of what may remain of the theater. Famous Dave has just opened another location in the area within the space of the former Liberty Theatre on 42nd Street – although, due to Landmark protection, that transformation was done with much more respect and fidelity to the theater’s historic interior.
Here’s a link that offers the designer’s renderings of the transformed spaces for both this theater as well as the Liberty.
That’s encouraging news, LuisV. Famous Dave’s other location is within the shell of the former Mayfair/DeMille Theater on 47th off Broadway. While that space was not landmarked and most of the interior was gutted, the full vaulted height of the theater was retained and reports are that the auditorium ceiling was left more or less intact. Hopefully, with landmark restrictions in effect here, much more of the Liberty’s historic interior has been preserved and incorporated into the re-use.
This link has some renderings and image or two of the Liberty’s transformation and new floor-plan as well as for the DeMille’s. The page appears to be a space for the designer’s “latest” work, so not sure of the shelf-life on that link.
The photo that Warren posted may not offer a definitive view, but it does not appear that there were any boxes off the balcony, as described in the introductory comments.
Several stunning interior photographs have been recently uploaded to the site with no fanfare. Thanks to CT members Plaid and Matt Lambros for providing these peaks behind the shuttered doors. I look forward to more uploads – paticularly from Matt, as I’m sure his expedition inside the Ridgewood did not stop with a single image!
Looks like someone pointed the street view at the IKEA entrance adjacent to the Mall. One can actually navigate the perimter roads within the Broadway Mall parking lot, but best shot you’d be able to get would be of the entrance by Macy’s.
I’m sure that was more of a rhetorical question, Tinseltoes, but I’ll follow up anyway: I remembered that she was in the John Huston movie version of Tenessee Williams' “Night of the Iguana” because her role in it was rather similar to that in “Lolita.” I searched her on imdb.com and see that she also appeared with Frank Sinatra in the 1967 detective drama “Tony Rome” and with George C. Scott that same year in “The Flim-Flam Man.” There were other film roles in lower budget films and a number of guest appearances on TV dramas into the 1970’s, but nothing of note. Her personal bio page on imdb is brief, but fairly interesting.
I’m with you there, Luis. The sad thing is, of the 9 historic theaters on the block (not counting the stripped down and presumably unsalvageable Anco) that were touted to be held by either the State or the 42nd Street Development Corp for preservation and restoration, we really only have three theaters that remain in a state of preservation: the Selwyn, New Amsterdam and New Victory (another gem).
On a secondary tier of preservation, the shell of the Empire Theatre remains as a lobby to the AMC multiplex that bears its name, and the Lyric and Apollo Theatres were disassembled with only segments of historical interior elements (mostly from the Apollo) used in the reconstructed theater that now sits within their combined footprint.
The Times Square still sits there with its future up in the air and reports are that the Liberty’s auditorium – which sat vacant but largely intact for many years – has recently been stripped away. And most unforgiveably, the Harris Theatre – which was in as good a shape as any of the theatres on the block – wasn’t even given any consideration for preservation, having been completely demolished for the Madame Tussaud’s project.
While I celebrate the survival of the Selwyn, New Amsterdam and New Victory, I bemoan the loss of the Lyric and Harris and feel saddened as the slim hopes for the Times Square and Liberty seem to be slipping away.
In all fairness, I’m sure Disney had a significantly bigger budget for their restoration of the New Amsterdam (which was also in a poorer state of disrepair) than the Roundabout had for its clean-up of the old Selwyn. The New Amsterdam sparkles like the crown jewel that it is. I haven’t been inside the Beacon Theatre since its multi-million dollar overhaul by Cablevision, but I imagine it is on a par with the work done at the New Amsterdam.
It was mentioned early on in the comments here that the exterior of the Aero is seen in the movie “Get Shorty.” In that film, the characters portrayed by John Travolta and Rene Russo are seen watching the end of Orson Welles' “Touch of Evil” in this theater. I don’t know if those interior shots were also filmed at the Aero, but a good deal of the auditorium decor can be seen.
By the way, entering “Owasco Road at Division Road, Governors Island, NY” (with or without an apostrophe in “Governor’s”) does bring up a correct google map indicator – at least it did when I tried it a few minutes ago. I think the address should be modified to drop the “New York, NY” in favor of “Governors Island, NY.”
Well… changing the address to include the intersection didn’t move the drop-pin on the map. I wonder if they had to drop the “Governor’s Island” part of the address for a specific reason. The “112” prefix in the zip code would normally indicate a Brooklyn, NY, address, not one in New York, NY.
Great image. Looks like pretty much every building in that photo has been replaced, with the exception of the structure on the far right along the same block front as the TSS. I believe that is where Kollner Prime Meats is located today.
You meant two months before the election, I’m sure – two days before the 9/11 attacks. Yes, the Disneyfication of Times Square, for better or for worse, was almost entirely completed during the Giuliani administration. Lindsay attempted it and some groundwork was performed during Koch’s reign, but this was Rudy’s baby and all Bloomberg is doing at this point is dotting the “i” in Disney. I really don’t have much of a problem with favoring pedestrians over vehicular traffic – but then, I don’t have to navigate the streets of Manhattan for a living.
Sure, the ‘70’s and '80’s saw a much seedier and dangerous Duece and Times Square, and, yes, as one whose mispent youth included countless hours in the area’s numerous movie houses, I do look back on that period with rose-tinted glasses. Regardless, I miss the character and honky-tonk atmosphere – the unique sense of place, not to mention the open space of the old Times Square (never mind Disneyfication, what about the canyonization of the streets with all those new glass office towers).
No doubt that home video and on-demand cable services would have eventually doomed the grindhouses and porn palaces to oblivion anyway and the area would have needed some sort of reinvention. It’s just so very disappointing that the overarching concept for Times Square’s makeover has been theme-park plasticity and ersatz nostalgia.
Do I miss the crime and grime? Not particularly, but how about a little urban authenticity? Reminds me a little of what has happened to the South Street Seaport. They essentially built a shopping mall out of it and then kicked the Fulton Fish Market (the area’s raison d'etre) out to the Bronx! At least while the Fish Market was still there, the place had a real and vital functionality and sense of history. But, I guess the tourists couldn’t stand the smell of fish while sipping their cappucinos and posing for photos in front of the Brooklyn Bridge, and so the market was consigned to the bowels of one of the city’s most far flung industrial areas! And so it goes…
Items of historical significance that just happen to have “fallen” from their moorings after 85 years…
None other than Thomas Lamb, I might have added. I would argue that any of Lamb’s extant work should be deemed historically important.
Nice slap by Leeser at his archtiectural forebears. I think the main facade is a rather handsome one and I’m hoping that they retain the columns and Latin inscriptions. I’m sure whatever architectural significance the original interior once might have held was likely shorn away years ago.
Is the Empire’s IMAX conversion a real lie like most multiplex conversions? I know this didn’t open with an IMAX facility, but I would have thought this might have been one of the better conversions around town.
Hey saps! Sorry I haven’t gotten around to taking a pic yet, but been busy of late. I did actually pass by one recent evening, but did not have my good camera on me. The lighting effect of the new neon along the vertical is very subtle and I don’t think a cell phone camera would do it justice. The letters F A N T A S Y along the blade are backlit with neon to provide a reddish glow behind the letters that helps define each character. I don’t want to make any empty promises, but I’ll try to get over there sometime this weekend to snap a couple of shots.
Hey techman707… The depictions in those designer renderings don’t always match the reality of the final finished work. I think the only drawing that represents the DeMille is the one looking up at the chandeliers hanging from the ceiling oval. The rendering gives the appearance of a classical design for the lighting fixtures. The photos I’ve seen of the Famous Dave’s interior at the old DeMille reveal a much more garish looking interior with chandeliers of neon tubing spelling out the name of the establishment. Since it is a restaurant, the lighting is also very dark in these photos so it is difficult to make out fine details.
Here’s 1 image I was able to find and here is another and one more just for fun. Not quite what the rendering would lead you to believe, eh?
Thanks, neeb. I love that site. By the way, the photo at the bottom of that page is actually of the other Roxy porn house that was immediately adjacent to the New Amsterdam Theatre – and does not have a listing here yet.
Anyway, here’s an active link to that page you posted.
Hey saps. Sorry to disappoint, but I have not been able to do so yet. I’ll comment in more detail over on that page.
I’m surprised that there is no mention in the introductory remarks regarding the NYC premiere and reserved-seat engagement of D.W. Griffith’s controversial epic “Birth of a Nation.” I know it’s been referred to in the comments section – and I believe an image of the opening ad was once provided – but seems that this is a significant enough bit of history for the theater (and, indeed, the history of cinema!) to warrant inclusion in the introduction.
While the film had already been exhibited the previous month in Los Angeles, the Liberty was secured for its NYC premiere on March 3rd, 1915, according to most sources. The top ticket price (in the loge) for evening showings was $2.00 – astronomical for the time. That price was reduced to $1.00 for matinees.
An article from the NY Times, dated January 2nd, 1916, notes that the film’s engagement at the Liberty was scheduled to conclude with that evening’s showing, after an unprecedented run of 45 weeks. The passage about the film reads as follows (all dates, numbers AND punctuations per the original publication):
“After two showings today Griffith’s picture, ‘The Birth of a Nation,’ will end an engagement in the Liberty Theatre that has never been approached in filmland. The picture was first shown there on March 2 of last year, and the man whose business it is to get things in the paper about it has assembled these interesting figures. The run lasted 45 weeks, with a total of 620 consecutive exhibitions. Simultaneously the pitcure was shown in outlying theatres 6266 times. In round numbers 616,000 persons saw the film at the Liberty, while adding those who witnessed it in other metropolitan playhouses brought the figure up to 872,000. This is about one-seventh of the population of New York, and, computing the admission average at 75 cents, $600,000 was paid by New Yorkers for the privilege. Simultaneously the picture was being shown in the larger cities of the country, and it is estimated 5,000,000 have already seen it.”
The Times' calculations don’t quite add up – 872,000 patrons at an average of .75 cents would tally to $654,000 paid admissions for the NY metropolitan area. Also appears they botched the date of the premiere as March 2nd, rather than March 3rd. If the numbers for the Liberty are to be believed (616,000 patrons over 620 showings), then the average attendance per show would have been near capactity at over 990 persons. Of course, coming from what appears to have been a publicist for the theater, I believe these figures should be taken with the proverbial grain of salt.
Comments allude to there having been three theater to bear the name St. James within the hamlet. I can only find listings for the original and this – the third incarnation. No information on the middle child?
Appears the auditorium was more or less stripped down to be reused as a Famous Dave’s Bar-b-que restaurant. The full vaulted height of the auditorium space remains as does, reportedly, much of the streamlined ceiling decor from its DeMille days. Of course, brightly lit neon chandeliers have been added, which probably obscure a lot of what may remain of the theater. Famous Dave has just opened another location in the area within the space of the former Liberty Theatre on 42nd Street – although, due to Landmark protection, that transformation was done with much more respect and fidelity to the theater’s historic interior.
Here’s a link that offers the designer’s renderings of the transformed spaces for both this theater as well as the Liberty.
That’s encouraging news, LuisV. Famous Dave’s other location is within the shell of the former Mayfair/DeMille Theater on 47th off Broadway. While that space was not landmarked and most of the interior was gutted, the full vaulted height of the theater was retained and reports are that the auditorium ceiling was left more or less intact. Hopefully, with landmark restrictions in effect here, much more of the Liberty’s historic interior has been preserved and incorporated into the re-use.
This link has some renderings and image or two of the Liberty’s transformation and new floor-plan as well as for the DeMille’s. The page appears to be a space for the designer’s “latest” work, so not sure of the shelf-life on that link.
Ha! Where’s the “like” button for that last comment?!?
The photo that Warren posted may not offer a definitive view, but it does not appear that there were any boxes off the balcony, as described in the introductory comments.
Several stunning interior photographs have been recently uploaded to the site with no fanfare. Thanks to CT members Plaid and Matt Lambros for providing these peaks behind the shuttered doors. I look forward to more uploads – paticularly from Matt, as I’m sure his expedition inside the Ridgewood did not stop with a single image!
Looks like someone pointed the street view at the IKEA entrance adjacent to the Mall. One can actually navigate the perimter roads within the Broadway Mall parking lot, but best shot you’d be able to get would be of the entrance by Macy’s.
I’m sure that was more of a rhetorical question, Tinseltoes, but I’ll follow up anyway: I remembered that she was in the John Huston movie version of Tenessee Williams' “Night of the Iguana” because her role in it was rather similar to that in “Lolita.” I searched her on imdb.com and see that she also appeared with Frank Sinatra in the 1967 detective drama “Tony Rome” and with George C. Scott that same year in “The Flim-Flam Man.” There were other film roles in lower budget films and a number of guest appearances on TV dramas into the 1970’s, but nothing of note. Her personal bio page on imdb is brief, but fairly interesting.
I’m with you there, Luis. The sad thing is, of the 9 historic theaters on the block (not counting the stripped down and presumably unsalvageable Anco) that were touted to be held by either the State or the 42nd Street Development Corp for preservation and restoration, we really only have three theaters that remain in a state of preservation: the Selwyn, New Amsterdam and New Victory (another gem).
On a secondary tier of preservation, the shell of the Empire Theatre remains as a lobby to the AMC multiplex that bears its name, and the Lyric and Apollo Theatres were disassembled with only segments of historical interior elements (mostly from the Apollo) used in the reconstructed theater that now sits within their combined footprint.
The Times Square still sits there with its future up in the air and reports are that the Liberty’s auditorium – which sat vacant but largely intact for many years – has recently been stripped away. And most unforgiveably, the Harris Theatre – which was in as good a shape as any of the theatres on the block – wasn’t even given any consideration for preservation, having been completely demolished for the Madame Tussaud’s project.
While I celebrate the survival of the Selwyn, New Amsterdam and New Victory, I bemoan the loss of the Lyric and Harris and feel saddened as the slim hopes for the Times Square and Liberty seem to be slipping away.
Also being done at the Fair Theatre in Queens, for several years now.
In all fairness, I’m sure Disney had a significantly bigger budget for their restoration of the New Amsterdam (which was also in a poorer state of disrepair) than the Roundabout had for its clean-up of the old Selwyn. The New Amsterdam sparkles like the crown jewel that it is. I haven’t been inside the Beacon Theatre since its multi-million dollar overhaul by Cablevision, but I imagine it is on a par with the work done at the New Amsterdam.
It was mentioned early on in the comments here that the exterior of the Aero is seen in the movie “Get Shorty.” In that film, the characters portrayed by John Travolta and Rene Russo are seen watching the end of Orson Welles' “Touch of Evil” in this theater. I don’t know if those interior shots were also filmed at the Aero, but a good deal of the auditorium decor can be seen.
By the way, entering “Owasco Road at Division Road, Governors Island, NY” (with or without an apostrophe in “Governor’s”) does bring up a correct google map indicator – at least it did when I tried it a few minutes ago. I think the address should be modified to drop the “New York, NY” in favor of “Governors Island, NY.”
Well… changing the address to include the intersection didn’t move the drop-pin on the map. I wonder if they had to drop the “Governor’s Island” part of the address for a specific reason. The “112” prefix in the zip code would normally indicate a Brooklyn, NY, address, not one in New York, NY.
Great image. Looks like pretty much every building in that photo has been replaced, with the exception of the structure on the far right along the same block front as the TSS. I believe that is where Kollner Prime Meats is located today.