Survey reveals new factors in moviegoing decline

And now, ladies and gentlemen, to offer up the counterpoint to this study, longislandmovies!

Some very interesting thoughts. But I think you’ve presented an imbalanced perspective; the ‘demise’ of the single-screen theatre as a means to unify people has at least been met by television and the Internet. And I really don’t know that people seventy-five years ago were more interested in what was happening in the world, what direction it was going in. (World Wars don’t count; they’re not reflective of people, but governments.) Isolationism has been the American hallmark since its inception. And I really don’t know that the ‘divisions’ that exist in American society today are any more demarcated than they were fifty, seventy-five, a hundred years ago. Are you suggesting that it was more homogenous back then?

Single-screen theatres were gathering places, allowing people of all (most) means to come to an often glorious setting and see the same entertainment. They were the ‘great leaveners’. That still happens today at movies…as well as in front of the tv and the computer monitor. Times have changed…as have the means to address people’s needs.

I think you’re conflating the demise of the single-screen theatre with what this report proposes…and that’s another discussion entirely.

Although WWII clearly went a long way in putting all Americans on the same side in a unified sort of way, and regardless of homogeneity, I was thinking far more of the Great Depression, which did far more to boost movie theater attendance than anything else that has ever happened before or since. While television enables people to see what other people around the world are seeing, what it doesn’t enable people to see — at least firsthand — is other peoples' reaction that which they themselves see. While the Nielson Ratings inform people if or not the shows they watch regularly are what other people do, still, seeing others' reactions is totally missing from that. So perhaps moreso than anything else, movie theaters enable people to see where many others are at. And they do indeed help to unify people in ways that television could not even begin to. Which is why I do indeed feel that the absence of single-screen theaters, and theater attendance being down, are both very much political. And I have seen movie theaters fold in direct correlation to certain politicians taking office. Which is the major reason why I feel that movie theaters should have a type of diplomatic immunity, totally unlike how it is with other types of businesses.

When I go to the theater, and no doubt it’s the same with many others as well, I go not only to see a movie presented in the absolutely best possible way, but also to experience other peoples' reactions to the same presentation. And to be sure, there is something very reassuring and self-confidence building when your reactions to the movie and others is identical. But you can understand, of course, why many politicians don’t want that to occur — particular at times such as now when they’re pushing to continue on a ridiculous war, or to totally redefine what ethics and morality means or what have you. And needless to say the ultra privileged set doesn’t want this to happen either.

Of course at the other extreme, single-screen theaters can be used as a powerful propaganda tool as well, the exhibiting of Leni Reifenstahl’s “The Triumph of the Will” at theaters all throughout Nazi Germany during WWII being an excellent example. And again, television, which addresses people separately, cannot even begin to match that, nor computers and the Internet or what have you.

Now Ken Layton has made an excellent point about commercials in theaters driving a lot of theatergoers away, while in many ways I feel that ties in with what I’m saying. For commercials shown in theaters greatly undermine the theatergoing experience, which is also to say the socially unifying experience. Again, I see it as being very political.

As for movie theaters having diplomatic immunity so as to rise above the constraints of politics gone amuck, there would have to be certain trade-offs theaters would have to surrender to qualify for this. And number 1 would be NO COMMERCIALS! Add to this, nothing could be shown that could said to be unreasonably racially biased, or violence-instilling without fair justification, and so forth and so on.

If we want to bring theater attendance back up again, think in terms of what drove this when theater attendance was at its highest level — which to the best of my knowledge was the Great Depression. We can say, “Oh, well they didn’t have television back then to compete with.” But I think that’s a total cop-out. And keep in mind they did have radio. And of course there were books back then and so on. People read a lot. Still, the movie theaters did well. Very very well. And I can’t say that it was because it was more homogenous either. People from all ethnic and racial backgrounds flocked to see the same movies and each in their own way identified with them, and with how all others around them did.

The post-WWII era. Meantime, getting on with talking about the era of today, these days it would not be unusual to hear the typical person say, “Al Gore’s ‘An Inconvenient Truth’ may well be a good film, but it’s just not something I’m really into.” Do you see what I’m getting at? Furthermore, do you know of many people right now who find Clint Eastwood’s “Letters From Iwo Jima” even mildly offensive? For right there’s your classic tunnel vision if ever there was such, not what I’m putting forth. You’re defining “today’s world” as a free-market, capitalist, somewhat-democratic society, but I myself am looking much higher than that — straight on at actual truth itself. The rest is all just convenient denial. And, incidentally, if I find a way to bring a single-screener back it will be for all the reasons I’ve given. And it will be flocked to by people who realize — or who will have come to realize — that there are forces in this world greater than ourselves. Do you recall the classic ending of the 1950s movie “War of the Worlds”?

“Letters From Iwo Jima” is Clint Eastwood’s follow-up to his “Flags of Our Fathers,” which makes the case for how the flag raising at Iwo Jima was largely propaganda and even goes so far as trying to draw parallels between that and the war in Iraq….as if there really are any. And “Letters From Iwo Jima” tells of the famous battle from the Japanese viewpoint. In brief, Eastwood is abusively using his Hollywood stature to take advantage of a U.S. government gone amuck. And you see how the American public is right now. Little to no reaction. And in his relaying the account of the Iwo Jima battle in both cases he’s not relaying the full story. And for what ultimate aim, pray tell? Whether intentionally or otherwise, one clearcut aim is to fester overseas hatred towards America, in the far east especially. Another, to justify America’s going the same route as a runaway empire it once rose up to put a stop to. And a third is perhaps Eastwood’s never quite achieving the legendary Hollywood stature he had hoped for and so maybe this is his revenge for his ego having been assaulted in that way.

As for the tunnel vision connection to that, in Eastwood-like fashion, many Americans right now put their own egos ahead of what’s of far greater importance and thus can very much identify with where Eastwood is coming from, while failing to see the bigger picture — hence the tunnel vision aspect. This has happened before, of course, Japan up until 1945 for instance.

And movie theaters — particularly single-screen theaters where many people see the same film collectively — do not sit well with those with tunnel vision. They want truth to be what they want it to be, and home theater systems, of course, play beautifully to that. But home theaters playing to tunnel vision in that respect can also be very very dangerous. Movie theaters can enable people to get a somewhat accurate reading on what other people are thinking as well, to provide a very major reality check. Which does indeed matter. And whether the theater is packed or empty speaks volumes either way. Of course, when used for propaganda purposes, like the home theater, the single-screen public movie theater can be very dangerous as well. Through their fostering a type of group think, public theaters can lead a whole theaterful of people in the wrong direction, as was the case when Kung Fu movies were heavily exhibited in ghetto theaters back in the late 1970s and early ‘80s. There were actual cases where such showings in that setting, or in theaters in downtown settings away from the ghetto (seen as being the blame for the ghetto plight), culminated in violence sprees after the theaters let out.

But doing away with movie theaters completely was not the best answer. If movies are of good quality, and they stay loyal to the truth in a constructive way, people will come out to the theaters. The commute to and from them must be pleasant, of course. And any theater operator who ignores that…well, that’s just another type of tunnel vision. And of course attending them must always be kept affordable. A point that Hollywood itself needs to become more sensitive to.

-I have to ask, because I think it informs your slant: in what era did you grow up, schmadrian?

Since anytime following World War II can be classified as the “Post-WWII era” (including now, even) I feel I need to clarify in my case that I’m not a baby boomer, but am in the age group that came right behind that demographic. So if you’re a boomer that makes me younger than you, plus I now much better understand your total blindness to many things. The vast majority of those in your age bracket were totally insensitive to the important needs of those coming up behind you, and with your having been set for life that way that’s never changed. Add to this that you’ll be heading into Social Security next and it will become a case of so much for that once-nice thing too. Totally spoiled, your generation was given many great things, but you didn’t know how to manage them the right way, including a vast array of wonderful movie theaters that were holding up fabulously well when your generation entered their doors, but were in total ruins and shambles when your age group left them to move onto whatever else it could destroy. And you thought so highly of yourselves for this when truth be said it was one big duh-uh!!! And I for one — I suppose in a way that really upsets you — don’t want the story to end this way. I’d much rather prefer a “War of the Worlds” type ending instead.

For let’s be real about it; your generation blew it. And the evidence of that is seen in the way so many of the once upon a time great theaters are today. Take a good hard look around you, schmadrian: This one’s now a furniture store, that one got torn down, this other once-great theater is now a drug store or bank or some other stupidity. It’s like what the heck?! When the reins of decision-making were passed onto your generation was it a classic case of the mispassing of the reins or what? And the answer to that question, of course, is YES in all-caps (uh, just in case you can’t think that highly.)

Anyway, that’s just a nice hefty dose of truth. Now back to your gurglings…

I found your comments to be typical of those of your generation, including how you cop out by saying those who came before yours are to blame for anything that’s wrong with your generation. Most people even to this day don’t even know who the babyboomers are because they mistakenly identify you with the cultural things you were brought up with. To give some examples, we think of the baby boomers and we think of peace, love, Woodstock, the Beatles and the whole bit, when in truth your generation was only the consumers of all that, not the creators of it or even the advocators of it for that matter. You could’ve been, the opportunities given you to do so were tremendous, but you chose not to. Yet we not in the baby boomer generation went on thinking your generation was about peace, love, Woodstock, etc., when it all was just a big lie. For look at the baby boomers now. A war is currently raging in Iraq a thousand times worse than Vietnam ever was, but since those in your generation face no threat of being sent over it’s like what’s it to you? When your generation was young a being sent to Vietnam was a direct threat to you, those of the older generation over you cared about it. And somehow from that you blame them for what your generation is?

I blame the generation that came before you for passing onto your generation the reins of power by mistake. But see, when they did so they were fooled by the culture you embraced, mistaking that for you. But now here your generation is, with the reins of power, and are all these wonderful things now happening as a result of it? Quite the contrary. Movie theaters at their finest are dying in your hands. And of course theater attendance is down. People can’t flock to theaters if they don’t exist, nor will they if they’re being managed improperly. Your generation embraced all the culturally marvelous things. But only to squeeze all life out of them. And when you did you never came back with anything creative of your own. For how could you when yours was just a generation of takers only? Intrinsically speaking, in your generation there was no peace, no love, just a lot of gimme! gimme! gimme! And you got got got in a way that I can only cite as a huge throwaway. “Pearls before swine” as it were, just to play the Christian card where it’s fitting.

Pining away for what never was? Oh-ho, that’s a good one! What a convenient lie that is for you to hide behind rather than coming totally clean. And it places you right up there with the Holocaust denyers and those who theorize that the whole astronauts landing on the moon bit in 1969 — right before those in your generation acquired the reins — never happened, was totally faked.

As for greater generational clarification regarding myself, I’m in that age group right between the babyboomers and the gen-Xers, which I suppose we could classify as the “firsthand eyewitness generation.” For I saw all the wonderful things your genreration was given firsthand, okay? For I experienced these things to a degree, too. Firsthand. And I saw your generation destroy them firsthand — like that child hiding in the closet of a house where there was supposed to be no eyewitnesses. I saw the beautiful seaside resorts that once had been, and the magnificent movie palaces that YOUR generation brought down, and I saw the great universities our nation once had crumble in your generation’s hands. Before your generation came into a position of decisionmaking we could put a man on the moon. But now? Take a good hard look at the timelines, schmadrian. How life went from everything is possible — which is where things stood in 1969 — to how nothing is now. Your generation took it upon itself to knock everything beautiful down and to make sure it stayed down. And your generation did a good job of that, I will say that much. And your generation also wants to knock down all truth of what I’m saying here. Make it the “perfect crime” as it were. But the TRUTH isn’t going to go away that easily. For there were firsthand witnesses, and I was one. One of many.

This is truly amazing, schmadrian! There was a time when regular neighborhood theaters and movie palaces were in top form and plentiful all throughout the United States and attendance was high. And then there’s now, 2007, when we can hardly make that same claim. Something had to have happened between the two time periods to cause that sharp downward transition. Something truly major. And while we can be quick to cop out and say oh it was the advent of TV or whatever, my having lived through much of this stretch between the two time periods firsthand I’ll be just as quick to say, no, it wasn’t that. But if somebody says the baby boom generation brought the great neighborhood theaters and palaces down, well, suddenly it’s BINGO! So much so that with your quick but very baseless defense of the baby boom generation — as one who’s a member of it — I feel it best at this point to advise you of your Miranda rights.

Meantime, from my side of things, right now I feel as if you and I are Rod Steiger and Marlon Brando in the back seat of that cab, with you, the older brother, deflecting all blame elsewhere when I try to pinpoint what it was exactly that prevented me from being the contender I was meant to be in life. But as I look at you directing all blame away from yourself I can only reply, “No, it was you Charlie, remember?” My memories are of what I saw. And there’s no crime in seeing. But your memories, as one who’s a tad bit older, are of what you did that I merely saw. And that you’re now denying. Like me, you can bear witness to what happened in that stretch of time also. But in your case, unlike it is in mine, it is so self-incriminating that I do indeed have to advise you of your Miranda rights at this point — while if it were me and I were you I would just come totally clean. I would do just as Burt Lancaster did in “Judgement at Nuremberg,” just to highpoint the difference in character between you and I.

And sure, we could take this discussion private by e-mail exchange as you suggest. But need I remind you, schmadrian, the title of this CT page is “Survey reveals new factors in moviegoing decline,” just to do the big reality check. And when in that survey I don’t see the reason that I know why movie theater attendance is down — way way down from what it once was — then if this isn’t the right place to publicly state what the actual reason is then what place, pray tell, is?

I post here publicly to expose what the actual reason is. And you post here to publicly deflect from what you know to be true. And why would you do that? What would your motive be?

Whem I did a Google search on Movie attedence surveys. PA isn’t the only one that has done one. Zogby reported the samething in their findings as well.

stares at TheaterBuff1’s comment

keeps staring

tries to head-shake his stare away

schmadrian, uh, let me guess: That staring at my comment you speak of is a carry-over from how you once stared at the big movie screen — not being able to make any sense of it while all those around you were greatly inspired by what they saw.

Anyway [ahem] getting on with discussing caesar’s intelligent commentary at this CT page, it’s very encouraging to hear that the folks of Vicksburg are outraged over the closing of the big movie theater there. I just hope Vicksburg’s movers and shakers hold that same outlook, and don’t try to come across like they know better. At this late stage, we continue to think of movie theaters strictly as businesses, forgetting that they’re also major artistic outlets, in that movies have long come of age as an art form. That is, do we go and shut down the local art museum because it isn’t making enough money? Or the local library? So why the differentiation when it comes to movie theaters? It’s crazy! And whether movie theater attendance is up or down shouldn’t make a difference. Like if a church’s congregation suddenly drops off sharply, do we all say, “Oh, well that’s it. Let’s bring on the bulldozers and knock that sucker down!”? With the exception of what I witnessed in Atlantic City, NJ when the big casinos rose up to be the new rule of law there, the answer is of course not, that just isn’t done! Or at least not in an actual democracy it isn’t.

My whole take on this survey business is that whether theater attendance is up or down, we still want to keep the beautiful threaters around either way, because movie theaters just in themselves — at least the really well-designed ones — are special. Far too special to let surveys — which can be doctored — determine their future, and whether they should remain or be demolished. But see, that’s life in a democracy thinking. And maybe America’s just this big third world now…ruled over by backwards-minded folks like schmadrian.

Let me tell you Vicksburg so called mover and shakers try to come across as smart. But they’re not. They’re narrow minded. I’ve been listening the local ams show and the hosts have tried to play things up as hunky dorey. Where reality is a different story. One of the former alderwoman Gertrude Young has claimed she’s been in cotact with the cinema chains of the Viacom Corporation. But I’m skeptical about it. But one truth has emerged: money which this town worships has shifted out of here and they’re in a panic about it. The real ones who have been hurt by this cinama closing have been the kids. Both black and white. U see this town’s leaders have never cared for them either. But I’m pleased they’re the ones extremely upset.
By the way I find all your opinions informative. I believe Regal made the serious mistake of not building a new cinema to meet the new trends. Regel Eneternainment also went public on the stock market too by the way. I figured they sold this cinema to Village Entertainment becouse the profit margins were weak. They should’ve done market studies and ask the why question why they’re going to the cinemas in the Pearl,Madison and Ridgeland. But this town has always been backward. To Jackson and Monroe,La the city whose population hasn’t growned by the way, has the perception of nothing to do. I can voutch for that becouse its true. Now before the closing Village Entertainment was bragging to the local paper about renovations. In fact they pulled a delayed tactic and said that renovations were going to take place this summmer.
Now the real problem has been the Pemberton Mall itself. Where the Malls in Jackosn metro area have undergone rennainnaces,Pemberton has been losing business and with the high rent which CBL instituted and taking store profits. CBL hasn’t faced the real problem of growing crime at the mall which will make a cinema operator think twice. I can tell you as movie buff I took the closing as a slap in the face,an insult. I can tell you this closing embolden me I didn’t expect I hit the cinema sits like Cinamrk,Regal and Malco and I told what happened. Especially on how the two feuded but I want last operator and CBL just have a hard time. At one time I can tell u at the old Battlefiled Mall which has been torned down—there was a cinema outside the mall. Cinema 4 in fact. I want to say that putting Cinema in malls was an 80s trend but I could be wrong.
This summer when I had an oppertunity to visit the River Centre Mall in San Antoine,Texas. It has an AMC Cinema and an IMAX cinema in the same place. I found that to be real cool.

One of the best “regular” theaters I can remember was located in a mall — meaning that a mall theater CAN still qualify as having high artistic merit and thus worthy of protection accordingly. The “regular theater” of the past I’m referring to was the Premiere, located in the Neshaminy Mall here in Pennsylvania just outside of Philadelphia. I saw DR. ZHIVAGO there sometime back in the late ‘60s. And at that time it was run impeccably. And although it was all new at the time, already it had a lot of class to it. It was DESIGNED with class. Add to this that it had just about the best theater sound system I’ve ever experienced, anywhere — before or since.

But then the great tsunami of the know-nothing schmadrians came along to override it with their bubblegum, graffiti and public urination, snobbishly treating it as a “business,” nothing more. And in today’s world as a result of this shear stupidity on the part of people like that that once great theater is no more. And the same holds true of countless many others. Meantime, you would think that maybe, maybe, just once, that the schmadrian types would look back on ALL the destruction they caused so as to see themselves for who they really are, and how all that hideous destruction they left behind in their wake is the REAL them. For that’s what I see, looking at this matter accurately. And straight on. And so, too, is caesar, as you can see.

Meanwhile, despite the wall that you, schmadrian, and all the other schmadrians now constitute in your shear arrogance, there IS a future seeking to push through it all. And that future that’s now lining up at your big sealed gates isn’t going away. And no, schmadrian, what I speak of in terms of what’s currently lining up outside those gates of yours isn’t people per se. But rather, it’s the truth itself. And it’s a truth that you don’t want to be exhibited in well-run neighborhood movie theaters and big city movie palaces so that many can know about it other than just you and I. And yes, I get that, in terms of what it is you don’t want; you don’t have to keep repeating yourself. But you seem to think that suppressing the truth in that way as well as by other methods somehow makes truth disappear into thin air. But all I can say is, tsk tsk, schmadrian. I’m so glad I’m not riding on that train you are, the one that’s going to be crashing up really big time soon — while you keep comforting yourself, looking to the past, and smugly saying, “Well, it hasn’t happened yet.” Well of course it hasn’t. Because crashes are what happen ahead of the fact, not behind it. You’re looking back, I’m looking forward, and from a totally different train. The one called truth. And that’s right outside your big sealed gates.

No, those meds are for you to take, schmadrian, and please, feel free to them all at once. And just tying that to this Cinema Treasures' webpage, while it’s sad that over all that movie theater attendance is down, you’re suuuuure one consumer the theaters won’t miss! So regarding the meds, please feel free to swallow the whole bottle all at once. Classy theater operators everywhere will thank you for it!

And as for my age, in your delirium you must be getting me mixed up with someone else, for in terms of the age I’ve put myself across as being at this webpage and elsewhere, I’m consistent on that throughout this entire website.

Meantime, one last thing I need to ask you here, what the heck are “espectially cinemas”?!

When I read the survey results of movie attendance. I can tell you the local paper in thier editorial got it all wrong. Especially with the fact over,dvds and the internet. I’m not kidding here the Vicksburg Post missed its mark. And the surveys can back that up. I can tell you even high rent forced FYE out of the mall. And FYE had some real good dvds too.
I can tell you none of the teens don’t shop at the local Be Bop record shop.

Despite low cineam attendance I believe now the real problem with cinema operators in this market is going to be subprme mortgage issues. Why? I can tell you the commerical real estate,and housing real estate is way overpriced. Now with subprime in the marketplace; I bellieve any major cinema chain is going to be asking questions on commerical real estate. I’m not kidding here either.
What has been interesting though none of the city leaders and the greedy chamber of commerce haven’t heard any takers. They talk of investors interestied in this market like say Warren Theatres of Kansas City,Kansas. But so far no takers. I suspect cinema investors are looking long hard at the commerical real estate prices here. As this continues the more cinema goers here are going to venture the more classier cinemas in the Jackson metro area. But publicly local leaders don’t want to talk about it. Now I suspect too the cinema operators may know that money has been leaving this marketplace. A reality local leaders now have to face. CBL,which owns the Pemberton Mall,has been quiet as well. I wonder if crime issues at that mall has popped u and some have refused to do business with Renee Williams. The year is almost up since the feud between CBL and Village Entertaintment closed cinema. And I believe some cinema operators are thinking twice.
Now on the CBL front what has been interesting the mayor offer them two million to reinvent the old Pemberton Mall. And they supply the rest like ten million. But CBL hasn’t responded to the mayor’s offer at all. Another factor when a crime happened at the CBL out of Chattanooga didn’t respond to the local paper’s question.

Theatrebuff I can tell you that feud between Village Entertainment and CBL wasn’t pleasent.I can tell you it went down with Village Entertainment. Their management I suspect chased away patrons. What got some frustrated with this market was that both Regel and Village to open this market to more movie choices.And u can find more choices in the Jackson metro market place. One question I did address to Regel who were the first owners and I’m now thier customer again was this: why didn’t you build new cinema here? Becouse the metro area has reflected the trend of cinemas out of mall. U see I figure too the limited choices chased away the teen market to Jackson and thier cinemas. But I can tell the black patrons here were abusive; what lead to close down was to black employees fighting among one another. Village also didn’t keep its word on renovations. Thanks to some on here on the board I learned that Village Entertainment wasn’t good tenant. Also Village followed the same practice in marketing films more to blacks than to whites. And the black films got held over more than several months. It also reflects poor short sightfulness on Regel and Village on the fact that this town’s demographics have changed. Very first run films didn’t run here at all. They would show trailors but they never would open. I call it deception on thier part and bad business.
Don’t worry people here are voicing more against taxes too down here why? They’ve now discovered its work against getting businesses in here.

That’s a real good question over the laws. Let me tell you I cought onto the trailor pattern about five years ago. I figured out it when the trailor, The Mothman Propehices was ran. I wanted to see it becouse of the subject matter. Well anyway when it didn’t open I wrote a complaint comment to Regel Entertainment about it. And gradually I discovered this pattern. U know back in'99 Regel ran the trailor for Magnolia with Tom Cruise. Now I learned that came out on limited release for example. Like New York and Los Angeles. But that same pattern of running trailors continued under Village Entertainment as well. U know before the cinema was close the crime problemitic issues con’t. CBL alone had closed over six or nine stores related to the issue.
Now I can tell you on Saturday afternoon attendance really dropped. On some films hardly anyone. Real interesting from my point of view. But I can tell Village Entertainment was real incompentent. U know what I like about the cinemas in Jackson metro area and in Peconland Mall,which has a Cinmark 10 screen by the way. There classy and modern. But the owners let the old four screen fall into disrepair. I believe another turn off to locals was the fact when u have five films on a four screen format—showtimes get screwed up. And both chanins did this.
One fact that was never done was a market study. Why? Becouse the demographics have really changed. But one my friends told me a few days about a digital cinema he went to in Birmighhanm. He told the sound and picture quality was fanstatic. He told me that’s the type cinema he would like to see here.

If I had the finaicial means I would. And if I did I wouldn’t put in a mall. I would follow the trends etc. On the local bullentin board people are now expressing thier minds on the issue.