OK, this web site has more pictures of both the Brunson and the Bay, but gives the address of the Brunson as 8200 S. Main Street. Somebody will have to check Google Maps to see which is correct (I can’t do it right now because Google Maps keeps crashing my browsers for some reason.)
The Brunson Theatre was designed by architect Leon C. Kyburz. There’s a photo of it on this page at the web site of the Greater Houston Preservation Alliance. They give the exact address of the Brunson as 315 W. Texas Avenue.
The same page has a photo of another Kyburz-designed theater in Baytown, called the Bay, built in 1942 at 3100 Market Street. It doesn’t have a Cinema Treasures listing yet.
The first People’s Theatre was on a different site, across the street from its replacement. The second People’s Theatre was designed by architect Leon C. Kyburz, and Boxoffice Magazine’s issue of July 13, 1946, said that the construction permit had been issued on July 1.
The house was owned by the Jefferson Amusement Company, whose spokesman was quoted as saying “The People’s will be our first new theatre in Beaumont since we opened the Tivoli six years ago.” The Tivoli does not appear to be listed at Cinema Treasures yet, unless it’s a missing aka.
Another issue of Boxoffice Magazine, from December 2, 1944, has an article about the McLendon circuit, and it says the circuit’s new Beverly Hills Theatre was already open, so late 1944 would probably be the correct period for the opening. The company was able to get construction materials during the war because the theater would serve workers at a major aircraft factory nearby.
The article also said that the architect of the Beverly Hills was Raymond F. Smith. The style was Art Moderne.
The Centre Theatre was scheduled to open on December 1, 1944, and was one of the few new theaters to be completed in the U.S. during WWII. The issue of Boxoffice Magazine published the following day featured a rendering of the Centre’s handsome Art Moderne exterior as the front plate of the magazine’s Modern Theatre section.
An article in the magazine included a small reproduction of architect Jack Corgan’s original floor plans, and one of his sectional drawings of the house showing some nice scroll-work on the side wall. The Centre was of reinforced concrete construction, featured a section of stadium seating, and took three years to complete due to wartime shortages of manpower and materials.
Architect Corgan worked on the design and on getting priorities for building materials in his spare time, as he was drafted shortly after receiving the project and served as a flight instructor in the Army until late 1944.
The Centre was owned by Griffith-Consolidated Theatres, Inc., and was a replacement for a theater on the same site which had been destroyed by fire.
An item about Underwood and Ezell in the September 22, 1945, issue of Boxoffice (issuu misidentifies it as September 15, 1945) indicates that Jack Corgan designed all of the circuit’s early drive-ins, including the Circle in Waco, the Shepherd, and an unnamed theater on Military Drive in San Antonio. The item also says that plans were underway for drive-ins in Pharr, San Antonio, and at two locations in Houston.
The only clue I can find connecting Corgan with the Buckner is an item in the July 17, 1948, issue of Boxoffice, which is about a Dave Callahan whose company was about to open a drive-in in Little Rock called the Ascher, which was “…patterned after the Buckner Boulevard drive-in in Dallas.”
The next paragraph says “Callahan was in Dallas conferring…with architect Jack Corgan who designed the big airer.” It’s not perfectly clear from that wording whether Corgan designed the Ascher, the Buckner, or both, but that he designed both does seem likely.
Don Sanders’s book “The American Drive-In Movie Theatre” (previewable at Google Books) has a brief biography of Jack Corgan, and says that by the time he retired in 1980 he had designed over 75 drive-ins. He also designed many indoor theaters. So far, his Cinema Treasures list contains only fourteen.
The Buckner Boulevard Drive-In was opened June 4, 1948. It had a capacity of 664 cars. Owners were W.G. Underwood and Claude Ezell. Boxoffice Magazine of June 12, 1948, said “Underwood, Ezell, and other associates own 25 outdoor theatres in the state and are building more.”
There’s a possibility the Buckner was designed by Dallas architect Jack Corgan, but I’ll have to do some digging to see if I can come up with any confirmation. He did design other drive-ins for Underwood and Ezell, apparently including the Shepherd in Houston.
In the trade journal The Moving Picture World, July 24, 1915, under the heading “Other San Francisco Items” it says: “The Valencia Theatre has discontinued vaudeville and is now showing moving pictures exclusively.”
The Normandie Theatre was listed at 4811 S. Normandie in the 1956 City Directory. I’m sure that’s the correct address. The Academy Theatre, its aka, is listed at 4811 S. Normandie in the 1915 City Directory.
The building listed at 4811 by L.A. County Assessor has “0000” for the year it was built, and has an effective year built of 1963. It looks as though some part of an earlier structure might have survived a 1963 rebuilding, but the Assessor’s office has lost track of the original construction date.
Live Search bird’s eye view shows what looks like an apartment house on the lot at 4811 today, and Google Maps street view shows that the building has an address of 4807. The 1963 development must have incorporated one or more lots to the north of the theater’s site. There’s a small, shed-like building at the back that might be older than the apartment building, but it doesn’t look like it was ever part of a theater. The Normandie must have been demolished in 1963 or earlier.
I’m not sure why the Normandie was listed at 4817 in those mid-twenties ads. Some sort of address promiscuity, I guess. The building at 4817 today is a house dating from 1911, with a 1953 commercial addition at the front, according to the assessor’s office (and confirmed by Google satellite view.) That could never have been the theater.
In any case, as the Academy was already operating at 4811 Normandie in 1915, and the Normandie was still operating in 1956, the place had a long run. It’s too bad the building is gone. I’d like to have seen it. Maybe a photo will turn up someday.
Migratory address? I think it’s probably so. The 1915 City Directory lists a Cate & Swann Theater at 2127 W. Pico. The 1914 building at that address probably was built as a theater.
The parcel on the corner of Pico and Lake is given a Lake Street address by the L.A. County Assessor’s office, and it too is occupied by a building erected in 1914, but from Ken’s photos and the Google Maps view, it looks like the Empire was in the building east of that, on the lot the Assessor’s office still lists as 2127 W. Pico. They give the 1914 building there an effectively built date of 1922, so the original theater was probably expanded at that time.
An item from the December 23, 1944, issue of Boxoffice said that an early morning fire causing $15,000 damage had recently occurred at the San Carlos Theatre in Los Angeles. The cause was determined to be a cigarette left in a seat, which smoldered for several hours before starting the blaze. Residents of upstairs apartments had to flee the building.
The April 22, 1968, issue of Boxoffice Magazine ran an article about the new Prescott Drive-In. The Prescott was designed by San Francisco architect Gale Santocono, for Robert Lippert’s Affiliated Theatre Service Inc.
The new drive-in could accommodate 1000 cars on its 15 acre parcel, and had a screen 114 by 57 feet on a 70-foot tower. There was a free-standing marquee 40 feet high, with an attraction board 38 feet wide and 14 feet high. The first manager of the Prescott was Gus C. Vasconcellos.
This theatre had an interesting origin. It began as a simple quonset hut, and was opened by the Huish-Gilhool circuit when their Angelus Theatre, a few blocks away, was destroyed by a fire in 1948. While the house was already operating, the building was upgraded and expanded according to the design by architect Fred Markham.
The July 9, 1949, issue of Boxoffice Magazine said that the formal opening of the Arch Theatre had been scheduled for July 8, and a photo of the completed theater was published in the July 30 issue of the same magazine. The quonset hut shape was retained, the front of the building was expanded to one side, and the whole edifice was given a modern “California” (as Boxoffice called it) design, built of redwood and of native rock quarried in Park City.
The Angelus Theatre was reopened in a new building on its old site in 1950, giving Spanish Fork two movie theaters.
Larry: I found a reference to a chain called San Carlos Cinemas in the March 4, 1974, issue of Boxoffice Magazine. The item said that the chain was shuttering the Magnolia Adult Cinema in Larkspur. It looks as though San Carlos Cinemas was the porno outfit that ran the Paris in its later years.
The introduction on this page should be updated to include the information about its early years I noted in my earlier comment.
From Boxoffice Magazine, November 13, 1948: “Roy Hunt’s new Rubidoux Drive-In in Riverside opened November 3 to a capacity attendance of 780 cars….” This was a special event with a tariff of $4.80 per person, the proceeds going to a local charity. Regular operations began the following night.
Most likely the location was given as Riverside because Rubidoux did not become a census-designated place until 1950.
The photo Lost Memory linked to above is mis-dated. The July 9, 1949, issue of Boxoffice notes that the Porter Theatre had recently opened, and that “Colorado Territory” had been the opening feature. I notice that the marquee sign in the photo gives the scheduled date as June 29.
An item in the October 2, 1948, issue of Boxoffice Magazine gives more information. Headlined “Plans complete at Porterville,” the item said that bids were being taken for construction of the new Principal Theatres house. The building was to be 100'x160', built of concrete block, and partly faced with brick. Boxoffice said it was designed by Los Angeles architect Louis E. Wilson, but I think they must have meant Lewis Eugene Wilson, who was also the architect of the Baldwin Theatre in Los Angeles.
The photo shows that the Porter had the same unusual roof shape as the Baldwin, which also opened in 1949, on August 10th. The roof of the Baldwin was supported by laminated arches which narrowed in width and increased in height as they approached the screen end of the auditorium. The Porter appears to have the same form. It was definitely not a simple quonset hut, but a sophisticated midcentury modern design.
I’d had no idea that the Baldwin had a slightly older (though smaller and somewhat plainer) sister theater. If this place is still in decent shape, I think it’s possible that its having been designed by a significant modern architect (Wilson was a major contributor to the Baldwin Hills Village project) might be enough to qualify it for inclusion on the National Register of Historic Places.
There were indeed two Varsity Theatres in Davis. The August 5, 1950, issue of Boxoffice carries this brief item: “The old Varsity Theatre building will be razed in Davis to make way for a new store.”
The Duluth Public Library posted this brief entry about the Lyceum on their weblog. It says the Lyceum opened in 1892, and was designed by Traphagen and Fitzpatrick. It was demolished in 1966.
There are thumbnail biographies of the architects on this page. Oliver Traphagen later moved to Hawaii, and was the architect of the Moana Hotel.
The link I put in my comment of Sept. 18, 2005, is dead. A photo and description of the 1924 fire which destroyed the Dome Theatre can now be seen near the bottom of this web page.
You’re right, Don. The Google Maps link above won’t show the correct location of the Wonderland’s site unless the address is changed to Ocean Front Promenade or (the current name) Ocean Front Walk.
A list of new theaters opened in 1965, published in Boxoffice Magazine’s January 17, 1966, issue, included the Century 22, and gave the seating capacity as 950.
Boxoffice Magazine’s issue of May 1, 1967, said that Syufy’s Century 23 Theatre had recently opened adjacent to the Century 21 and 22. The item said that the seating capacity of this new domed house was 832.
The same publication’s list of new theaters opened in 1968, published in its January 20, 1969, issue, lists the Century 24, and has a small photo captioned “Century 21, 22, 23, 24 – San Jose California – Syufy Enterprises” It doesn’t list the seating capacity of the new house.
The magazine’s list of new theaters opened in 1971, published in their issue of May 15, 1972, includes the Century Twin, 1200 seats, located in front of the Century 22.
I notice that the Century 21 has its own Cinema Treasures page, but the Century 22 and Century 23 do not. If somebody has their addresses, go ahead and submit these theaters. Both were designed by Vincent G. Raney, of course.
Boxoffice Magazine’s issue of November 30, 1964, announced that Syufy’s Century 21 in San Jose had opened on Tuesday, November 24. A seating capacity of 950 was given.
This house opened early in 1982 as the Cinedome 7. Like the other Cinedome theaters in California, it was a project of Syufy Enterprises (Century Theatres), and was designed by architect Vincent G. Raney.
Boxoffice Magazine ran an article about it in their January, 1983, issue, mentioning that it had opened just a year earlier. In its original configuration, the Cinedome had 2400 seats, with four domed auditoriums of 400 seats each (two of them equipped for 70mm projection and six track sound) and three flat-top houses of 400, 200, and 200 seats.
The theater had been so successful from its opening day that Syufy was, at the time the article was published, building a second, identical cineplex a couple of miles away, which was to be called the Cinedome West, and is now the Cinedome 7 Newark.
I don’t know when the Fremont Cinedome got its eighth screen, or how it was done, or how it changed the total seating capacity. A few of the domed theaters at various Century locations were split in later years, but they might have split the larger of the flat-top theaters in Fremont. Somebody who has actually been there will probably turn up eventually to let us know.
OK, this web site has more pictures of both the Brunson and the Bay, but gives the address of the Brunson as 8200 S. Main Street. Somebody will have to check Google Maps to see which is correct (I can’t do it right now because Google Maps keeps crashing my browsers for some reason.)
The Brunson Theatre was designed by architect Leon C. Kyburz. There’s a photo of it on this page at the web site of the Greater Houston Preservation Alliance. They give the exact address of the Brunson as 315 W. Texas Avenue.
The same page has a photo of another Kyburz-designed theater in Baytown, called the Bay, built in 1942 at 3100 Market Street. It doesn’t have a Cinema Treasures listing yet.
The first People’s Theatre was on a different site, across the street from its replacement. The second People’s Theatre was designed by architect Leon C. Kyburz, and Boxoffice Magazine’s issue of July 13, 1946, said that the construction permit had been issued on July 1.
The house was owned by the Jefferson Amusement Company, whose spokesman was quoted as saying “The People’s will be our first new theatre in Beaumont since we opened the Tivoli six years ago.” The Tivoli does not appear to be listed at Cinema Treasures yet, unless it’s a missing aka.
Another issue of Boxoffice Magazine, from December 2, 1944, has an article about the McLendon circuit, and it says the circuit’s new Beverly Hills Theatre was already open, so late 1944 would probably be the correct period for the opening. The company was able to get construction materials during the war because the theater would serve workers at a major aircraft factory nearby.
The article also said that the architect of the Beverly Hills was Raymond F. Smith. The style was Art Moderne.
The Centre Theatre was scheduled to open on December 1, 1944, and was one of the few new theaters to be completed in the U.S. during WWII. The issue of Boxoffice Magazine published the following day featured a rendering of the Centre’s handsome Art Moderne exterior as the front plate of the magazine’s Modern Theatre section.
An article in the magazine included a small reproduction of architect Jack Corgan’s original floor plans, and one of his sectional drawings of the house showing some nice scroll-work on the side wall. The Centre was of reinforced concrete construction, featured a section of stadium seating, and took three years to complete due to wartime shortages of manpower and materials.
Architect Corgan worked on the design and on getting priorities for building materials in his spare time, as he was drafted shortly after receiving the project and served as a flight instructor in the Army until late 1944.
The Centre was owned by Griffith-Consolidated Theatres, Inc., and was a replacement for a theater on the same site which had been destroyed by fire.
An item about Underwood and Ezell in the September 22, 1945, issue of Boxoffice (issuu misidentifies it as September 15, 1945) indicates that Jack Corgan designed all of the circuit’s early drive-ins, including the Circle in Waco, the Shepherd, and an unnamed theater on Military Drive in San Antonio. The item also says that plans were underway for drive-ins in Pharr, San Antonio, and at two locations in Houston.
The only clue I can find connecting Corgan with the Buckner is an item in the July 17, 1948, issue of Boxoffice, which is about a Dave Callahan whose company was about to open a drive-in in Little Rock called the Ascher, which was “…patterned after the Buckner Boulevard drive-in in Dallas.”
The next paragraph says “Callahan was in Dallas conferring…with architect Jack Corgan who designed the big airer.” It’s not perfectly clear from that wording whether Corgan designed the Ascher, the Buckner, or both, but that he designed both does seem likely.
Don Sanders’s book “The American Drive-In Movie Theatre” (previewable at Google Books) has a brief biography of Jack Corgan, and says that by the time he retired in 1980 he had designed over 75 drive-ins. He also designed many indoor theaters. So far, his Cinema Treasures list contains only fourteen.
The Buckner Boulevard Drive-In was opened June 4, 1948. It had a capacity of 664 cars. Owners were W.G. Underwood and Claude Ezell. Boxoffice Magazine of June 12, 1948, said “Underwood, Ezell, and other associates own 25 outdoor theatres in the state and are building more.”
There’s a possibility the Buckner was designed by Dallas architect Jack Corgan, but I’ll have to do some digging to see if I can come up with any confirmation. He did design other drive-ins for Underwood and Ezell, apparently including the Shepherd in Houston.
In the trade journal The Moving Picture World, July 24, 1915, under the heading “Other San Francisco Items” it says: “The Valencia Theatre has discontinued vaudeville and is now showing moving pictures exclusively.”
The Normandie Theatre was listed at 4811 S. Normandie in the 1956 City Directory. I’m sure that’s the correct address. The Academy Theatre, its aka, is listed at 4811 S. Normandie in the 1915 City Directory.
The building listed at 4811 by L.A. County Assessor has “0000” for the year it was built, and has an effective year built of 1963. It looks as though some part of an earlier structure might have survived a 1963 rebuilding, but the Assessor’s office has lost track of the original construction date.
Live Search bird’s eye view shows what looks like an apartment house on the lot at 4811 today, and Google Maps street view shows that the building has an address of 4807. The 1963 development must have incorporated one or more lots to the north of the theater’s site. There’s a small, shed-like building at the back that might be older than the apartment building, but it doesn’t look like it was ever part of a theater. The Normandie must have been demolished in 1963 or earlier.
I’m not sure why the Normandie was listed at 4817 in those mid-twenties ads. Some sort of address promiscuity, I guess. The building at 4817 today is a house dating from 1911, with a 1953 commercial addition at the front, according to the assessor’s office (and confirmed by Google satellite view.) That could never have been the theater.
In any case, as the Academy was already operating at 4811 Normandie in 1915, and the Normandie was still operating in 1956, the place had a long run. It’s too bad the building is gone. I’d like to have seen it. Maybe a photo will turn up someday.
Migratory address? I think it’s probably so. The 1915 City Directory lists a Cate & Swann Theater at 2127 W. Pico. The 1914 building at that address probably was built as a theater.
The parcel on the corner of Pico and Lake is given a Lake Street address by the L.A. County Assessor’s office, and it too is occupied by a building erected in 1914, but from Ken’s photos and the Google Maps view, it looks like the Empire was in the building east of that, on the lot the Assessor’s office still lists as 2127 W. Pico. They give the 1914 building there an effectively built date of 1922, so the original theater was probably expanded at that time.
Listed as the Carmel Museum Theatre in the 1956 L.A. City Directory (see also ken mc’s comment of January 5, 2007, above, citing the same name.)
An item from the December 23, 1944, issue of Boxoffice said that an early morning fire causing $15,000 damage had recently occurred at the San Carlos Theatre in Los Angeles. The cause was determined to be a cigarette left in a seat, which smoldered for several hours before starting the blaze. Residents of upstairs apartments had to flee the building.
The April 22, 1968, issue of Boxoffice Magazine ran an article about the new Prescott Drive-In. The Prescott was designed by San Francisco architect Gale Santocono, for Robert Lippert’s Affiliated Theatre Service Inc.
The new drive-in could accommodate 1000 cars on its 15 acre parcel, and had a screen 114 by 57 feet on a 70-foot tower. There was a free-standing marquee 40 feet high, with an attraction board 38 feet wide and 14 feet high. The first manager of the Prescott was Gus C. Vasconcellos.
This theatre had an interesting origin. It began as a simple quonset hut, and was opened by the Huish-Gilhool circuit when their Angelus Theatre, a few blocks away, was destroyed by a fire in 1948. While the house was already operating, the building was upgraded and expanded according to the design by architect Fred Markham.
The July 9, 1949, issue of Boxoffice Magazine said that the formal opening of the Arch Theatre had been scheduled for July 8, and a photo of the completed theater was published in the July 30 issue of the same magazine. The quonset hut shape was retained, the front of the building was expanded to one side, and the whole edifice was given a modern “California” (as Boxoffice called it) design, built of redwood and of native rock quarried in Park City.
The Angelus Theatre was reopened in a new building on its old site in 1950, giving Spanish Fork two movie theaters.
Larry: I found a reference to a chain called San Carlos Cinemas in the March 4, 1974, issue of Boxoffice Magazine. The item said that the chain was shuttering the Magnolia Adult Cinema in Larkspur. It looks as though San Carlos Cinemas was the porno outfit that ran the Paris in its later years.
The introduction on this page should be updated to include the information about its early years I noted in my earlier comment.
From Boxoffice Magazine, November 13, 1948: “Roy Hunt’s new Rubidoux Drive-In in Riverside opened November 3 to a capacity attendance of 780 cars….” This was a special event with a tariff of $4.80 per person, the proceeds going to a local charity. Regular operations began the following night.
Most likely the location was given as Riverside because Rubidoux did not become a census-designated place until 1950.
The photo Lost Memory linked to above is mis-dated. The July 9, 1949, issue of Boxoffice notes that the Porter Theatre had recently opened, and that “Colorado Territory” had been the opening feature. I notice that the marquee sign in the photo gives the scheduled date as June 29.
An item in the October 2, 1948, issue of Boxoffice Magazine gives more information. Headlined “Plans complete at Porterville,” the item said that bids were being taken for construction of the new Principal Theatres house. The building was to be 100'x160', built of concrete block, and partly faced with brick. Boxoffice said it was designed by Los Angeles architect Louis E. Wilson, but I think they must have meant Lewis Eugene Wilson, who was also the architect of the Baldwin Theatre in Los Angeles.
The photo shows that the Porter had the same unusual roof shape as the Baldwin, which also opened in 1949, on August 10th. The roof of the Baldwin was supported by laminated arches which narrowed in width and increased in height as they approached the screen end of the auditorium. The Porter appears to have the same form. It was definitely not a simple quonset hut, but a sophisticated midcentury modern design.
I’d had no idea that the Baldwin had a slightly older (though smaller and somewhat plainer) sister theater. If this place is still in decent shape, I think it’s possible that its having been designed by a significant modern architect (Wilson was a major contributor to the Baldwin Hills Village project) might be enough to qualify it for inclusion on the National Register of Historic Places.
There were indeed two Varsity Theatres in Davis. The August 5, 1950, issue of Boxoffice carries this brief item: “The old Varsity Theatre building will be razed in Davis to make way for a new store.”
The Duluth Public Library posted this brief entry about the Lyceum on their weblog. It says the Lyceum opened in 1892, and was designed by Traphagen and Fitzpatrick. It was demolished in 1966.
There are thumbnail biographies of the architects on this page. Oliver Traphagen later moved to Hawaii, and was the architect of the Moana Hotel.
The link I put in my comment of Sept. 18, 2005, is dead. A photo and description of the 1924 fire which destroyed the Dome Theatre can now be seen near the bottom of this web page.
The link I put in my comment of Sept. 18, 2005, is dead. A photo and description of the 1924 fire can now be seen near the bottom of this web page.
You’re right, Don. The Google Maps link above won’t show the correct location of the Wonderland’s site unless the address is changed to Ocean Front Promenade or (the current name) Ocean Front Walk.
A list of new theaters opened in 1965, published in Boxoffice Magazine’s January 17, 1966, issue, included the Century 22, and gave the seating capacity as 950.
Boxoffice Magazine’s issue of May 1, 1967, said that Syufy’s Century 23 Theatre had recently opened adjacent to the Century 21 and 22. The item said that the seating capacity of this new domed house was 832.
The same publication’s list of new theaters opened in 1968, published in its January 20, 1969, issue, lists the Century 24, and has a small photo captioned “Century 21, 22, 23, 24 – San Jose California – Syufy Enterprises” It doesn’t list the seating capacity of the new house.
The magazine’s list of new theaters opened in 1971, published in their issue of May 15, 1972, includes the Century Twin, 1200 seats, located in front of the Century 22.
I notice that the Century 21 has its own Cinema Treasures page, but the Century 22 and Century 23 do not. If somebody has their addresses, go ahead and submit these theaters. Both were designed by Vincent G. Raney, of course.
Boxoffice Magazine’s issue of November 30, 1964, announced that Syufy’s Century 21 in San Jose had opened on Tuesday, November 24. A seating capacity of 950 was given.
This house opened early in 1982 as the Cinedome 7. Like the other Cinedome theaters in California, it was a project of Syufy Enterprises (Century Theatres), and was designed by architect Vincent G. Raney.
Boxoffice Magazine ran an article about it in their January, 1983, issue, mentioning that it had opened just a year earlier. In its original configuration, the Cinedome had 2400 seats, with four domed auditoriums of 400 seats each (two of them equipped for 70mm projection and six track sound) and three flat-top houses of 400, 200, and 200 seats.
The theater had been so successful from its opening day that Syufy was, at the time the article was published, building a second, identical cineplex a couple of miles away, which was to be called the Cinedome West, and is now the Cinedome 7 Newark.
I don’t know when the Fremont Cinedome got its eighth screen, or how it was done, or how it changed the total seating capacity. A few of the domed theaters at various Century locations were split in later years, but they might have split the larger of the flat-top theaters in Fremont. Somebody who has actually been there will probably turn up eventually to let us know.