Absolutly correct Bill, Thanks for shaking my memory :)
The advertising for CinemaScope 55 as well as for VistaVision probably should have read “filmed in” since very very few theatres actually projected the pictures in those formats.
Jeff, it’s all about the size of the loops, actually when set up correctly 70mm prints glided along very nicely.
Oversized loops were problamatic, in particular the Century JJ 35/70 machines. If the lower loop at the bottom of the intermittent was not just right,scraches would soon appear in the form of rain in the center of the image.
The rule of thumb for the Century machines, like the one at the Ziegfeld,is the loop should be one perf larger than when wrapped around the open idler arm.
A lot of manufacturer had suggestions for loop sizes for various projectors, but most of the boys had their own way of looping, often making them too big.
Jeff, as I recall, only the first two Todd-AO pictures were shot at 30fps, “Oklahoma†and “Around the World in 80 daysâ€. At the Syosset on Long Island, where I played many 70mm prints, we had two Norelco AA-11 projectors which were designed for “Oklahomaâ€; they had two drive motors so we were able to play both speeds.
As William pointed out, “Oklahoma†was indeed shot twice but not simultaneously. In fact it was the reason Frank Sinatra pulled out of playing Curley, the role that went to Gordon McRae, Sinatra refused to shoot the picture twice.
As I recall, the reduction process was developed during the time Oklahoma was being shot which would have eliminated the need to shoot in 35mm Cinemascope as well as 70mm Todd-AO.
JSA, You are correct, “Around the world†was shot in both speeds, but unlike “Oklahoma†the cameras were set up side by side and the picture shot just once with both camera rolling simultaneously.
This is what I recall, perhaps someone else might elaborate
Many of us often write about 70mm here on the Ziegfeld page.
Some of you may have seen this but here is a clip that chocked me up a bit. It’s from the projection booth at the Heights theatre in Minnesota projecting “Oklahoma” in 70mm
Oh the wonderfull memories.
Ah that marquee, they seem to have kept it pretty much intact.
Missing now, or covered up, is the hardware for attaching the letters.
As a teenager I spent many a cold winter evening changing that marquee.
As Mr. Moses told me when i was hired, “the marquee must be changed every time we change movies, which is usually three times a week,
no matter what the weather"
Yes sir Mr. Moses, I am on it.
With respect to the missing left/right center tracks missing from the DTS WSS
I suppose we have to keep in mind that when Dolby came along, the #2 and #4 tracks on a six track 70mm print became one, mixing both tracks into one mono boom track for subwoofers. Music and diolog was no longer recorded on those two tracks. Later, track #5 began being used with track #6 for stereo surrounds Considering most newer six track amplifier systems have three tracks used for music and diolog and 2 tracks used for stereo surrounds, DTS does not include these original tracks 2 and 4
I can not recall how the 6 track 70mm DTS tracks are broken down. Perhaps someone with more technical matters in theses things than I could enlighten us.
I might add, hopefully not to worsen things, but I ran WSS in 70mm for quite a while and as was the custom, all the tracks were monitored in the booth throughout the showings. I can recall information was indeed recorded on tracks 2 and 4. I mention this because on some 70mm blow up prints those tracks were not always used; not often, but it did happen.
I am so on the same page here with Jeff. It just makes no sense not to use the curtains. Even if slides are being shown between shows they could at least close the curtain a minute or two before showtime and then open them at the start of the movie,
how wonderful that would look. The same thing could apply at the end,simply close the curtains, do a proper showmanship presentation, and then open the curtains for the slides after the patrons file out between shows.
Oh well, we have beat this issue to death, it’s not as if management is not aware of our complaint. Obviously showmanship is dead at the Ziegfeld.
Merideth, my tech was Carl Cricoli whom I sure you know. We worked together going back to my days at Sunrise in the early 80s.
Carl had his hands full when we first installed Dolby Digital sound at Hazlet. It was one of the first installations with the basement readers, which were always going out of calibration. The penthouse readers never had that problem but they were history and Carl had to make these s new ones work. It was carl who fiquered out that we should increase the voltage output in the LEDs so the film would not go into error. Trouble with that was it also shortened the life span of the LEDs. But Carl never gave up, but it sure took up a lot of his time.
Carl also had to keep the DTS units at Hazlet running, the company refused to buy parts anymore since they werer no longer buying them and were gradualy replacing them with Dolby Digital.
Carl would take parts from one two broken DTS units to make up one good one. he was a big help to me.
Meredith,you must have came on board after I left in ‘02
so I don’t think we never met.
Hazlet is/was one the best in the NA chain. I know Bill very well, i hired him away from UA a few years back. he is one of the best,a very knowledgable theatre man and all around nice guy.
I hand picked him as my choice to replace me as Managing Director when i retired, he was running Amboy at the time.
Oh Bill, I hope I did not ruin the movie for you.
It has it values, the first half is not terrible but after that
it’s all down hill. Perhaps if we did not have the original I just would have chauked it up to just another so so picture. But when they call it a remake of a masterpiece they have to be more respectful of the original message and this picture does not.
I suggest you see Frost/Nixon to get the bad taste out of your mouth and see a really good picture. Outstanding actually.
Just to keep things somewhat on topic, isn’t it grand to have Craig aboard to listen to our suggestions and allow us to be a part of the Ziegfeld’s classic film choices.
I am happy to have heard from Russ, thanks you so very much Russ, and I have come to the conclusion that the whole ugly affair was simply a glitch and my post was deleted though no fault of anyone in particular.
Unless of course someone at fox read it and did not appreciate the fact that I thought the movie was rubbish :)
Sorry could not resist that.
Truth is, the new generation will probably like (not love) it but many of us here at CT will not. I can also see why Clearview did not play the picture at the Ziegfeld.
Happily Robert Wise will not have to suffer through what has been done to his masterpiece.
But enough about TDTEST. Let me say thanks so very much to all of you who came to my defense and wrote so many kind things about me. It’s nice to be appreciated and I have always enjoyed this site so very much. Now that we have heard from the guys running this site we can all move on and put this misunderstand behind us.
The more I think about this the more irritated I become. Here I am a retired gentleman with a ton of information and thought to share in theses forums, something I have been doing for quite some time now. My posts, for the most part, have been informative and fun and I have tried to give the reader a sense of what it was like to have worked in the glory days if the Cinema Treasures. So if now and then I pepper my comments with an off topic post like the one regarding the screening I attended of the God awful remake of TDTESS, so what? I should think someone who has contributed so much to theses forums should have license to get off the beaten track from time to time. Never mind the fact that the majority of the folks reading them seen to appreciate and enjoy reading them. Quite honestly if that is the case than I no longer want to be a part of this website. How sad
Ohhhh I have to jump in here.
I am always thrilled when I her of the problems with Digital pojection. Computers will and always will do what ever they please anytime they please, and as a rule we have little or no control over that. The kinds of problems outlined in that article are just the tip of the iceburg, To those who thought missed changeovers and platter jams were bad, Let me quote the great Al Jolson and say
“You ain’t seen nothing yet.
The picture and sound quality is rather good I will admit, but it is not all that much better than good ole film, especially 70mm.
I also believe the guys switching to Digital are doing it for one reason and one reason alone, MONEY. The long range savings are huge for just about everyone from the studios to the theatre owners, but the long range will also bring problems that will make them wish for the day when the had the stabilty of motion picture film.
You know the confidence has to be low when at Radio City Music Hall when ever they run anything Digital a film backup is run at the same time just in case.
Don’t be to quick to put that final nail in films coffin, cause like Dracula it will rise again. At least that is what this silly old man hopes for anyway. Digital instead of film?…Humbug!
mjc, in those days all of the B'way houses had at least two men on for each shift. RCMH had 3 or 4 I beleive but I never saw more than two at a time at the Roxy. each man would be responsible for a projector, threading, cleaning and making the change over to his machine. They never left their assigned projector keeping an eye on focus and carbon trimming at all times.
We also had reel boys who were basically apprentices learning the ropes.
Yes Rob It was the larger one, the smaller one was used mostly for running Movietone News dailies and was a very hectic place to be.
MGM also had a screening room on another floor of the Fox building which was used for News of the Day. MGM had their cutting and sound editing rooms for the news there as well.Those News departmente were a hot bed of activity, turning out newsreels faster than a speedy bullet. I seem to recall RCMH having had two or three newsreels a week delivered from several of the major studios. The Music Hall staff would then piece together the best parts to create RCMH News.
I wondered what became of that building, I have not been in that area in years. I used to take the subway to 42nd/Times Square and then walk up B'way to, what was it, 51st street? and then down to the Fox/Deluxe building which cornered 10th Ave.
A wonderful blast from the past.
Just click on the article to enlarge and read the entire piece.
REndres if you have not already seen this you will love it.
My first visit to the Roxy booth was back in the 50s when I was just a kid working for 20th Century Fox, the Roxy had been played most of our pictures. The thing that surprised me was the size, it was only about 10 x 20. That seemed rather small, in fact the screening room on the 6th floor of the Fox home office (called the little theatre) was larger. I wonder if anyone else saw the inside of that booth, I know in the photo it seems to indicate three projectors but I only recall there being two. I was a long time ago and I visited a lot of booths so I am just going on memory here, but I believe I am correct.
Absolutly correct Bill, Thanks for shaking my memory :)
The advertising for CinemaScope 55 as well as for VistaVision probably should have read “filmed in” since very very few theatres actually projected the pictures in those formats.
Jeff, it’s all about the size of the loops, actually when set up correctly 70mm prints glided along very nicely.
Oversized loops were problamatic, in particular the Century JJ 35/70 machines. If the lower loop at the bottom of the intermittent was not just right,scraches would soon appear in the form of rain in the center of the image.
The rule of thumb for the Century machines, like the one at the Ziegfeld,is the loop should be one perf larger than when wrapped around the open idler arm.
A lot of manufacturer had suggestions for loop sizes for various projectors, but most of the boys had their own way of looping, often making them too big.
Jeff, as I recall, only the first two Todd-AO pictures were shot at 30fps, “Oklahoma†and “Around the World in 80 daysâ€. At the Syosset on Long Island, where I played many 70mm prints, we had two Norelco AA-11 projectors which were designed for “Oklahomaâ€; they had two drive motors so we were able to play both speeds.
As William pointed out, “Oklahoma†was indeed shot twice but not simultaneously. In fact it was the reason Frank Sinatra pulled out of playing Curley, the role that went to Gordon McRae, Sinatra refused to shoot the picture twice.
As I recall, the reduction process was developed during the time Oklahoma was being shot which would have eliminated the need to shoot in 35mm Cinemascope as well as 70mm Todd-AO.
JSA, You are correct, “Around the world†was shot in both speeds, but unlike “Oklahoma†the cameras were set up side by side and the picture shot just once with both camera rolling simultaneously.
This is what I recall, perhaps someone else might elaborate
How many of you remember seeing this trailer for the first and only picture projected in VistaVision at Radio City Music Hall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOciH4oujls
Many of us often write about 70mm here on the Ziegfeld page.
Some of you may have seen this but here is a clip that chocked me up a bit. It’s from the projection booth at the Heights theatre in Minnesota projecting “Oklahoma” in 70mm
Oh the wonderfull memories.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfMKz6bmCXc
Ah that marquee, they seem to have kept it pretty much intact.
Missing now, or covered up, is the hardware for attaching the letters.
As a teenager I spent many a cold winter evening changing that marquee.
As Mr. Moses told me when i was hired, “the marquee must be changed every time we change movies, which is usually three times a week,
no matter what the weather"
Yes sir Mr. Moses, I am on it.
Sorry everyone,I did not realise you had to log on to see that review.
I believe that “The King and I” had its NYC premiere engagement at the Roxy, not at the Rivoli.
posted by Warren G. Harris on Jan 14, 2009 at 6:34am
Indeed it did premiere at the Roxy in June 1956
Here is the NY Times review
View link
With respect to the missing left/right center tracks missing from the DTS WSS
I suppose we have to keep in mind that when Dolby came along, the #2 and #4 tracks on a six track 70mm print became one, mixing both tracks into one mono boom track for subwoofers. Music and diolog was no longer recorded on those two tracks. Later, track #5 began being used with track #6 for stereo surrounds Considering most newer six track amplifier systems have three tracks used for music and diolog and 2 tracks used for stereo surrounds, DTS does not include these original tracks 2 and 4
I can not recall how the 6 track 70mm DTS tracks are broken down. Perhaps someone with more technical matters in theses things than I could enlighten us.
I might add, hopefully not to worsen things, but I ran WSS in 70mm for quite a while and as was the custom, all the tracks were monitored in the booth throughout the showings. I can recall information was indeed recorded on tracks 2 and 4. I mention this because on some 70mm blow up prints those tracks were not always used; not often, but it did happen.
I am so on the same page here with Jeff. It just makes no sense not to use the curtains. Even if slides are being shown between shows they could at least close the curtain a minute or two before showtime and then open them at the start of the movie,
how wonderful that would look. The same thing could apply at the end,simply close the curtains, do a proper showmanship presentation, and then open the curtains for the slides after the patrons file out between shows.
Oh well, we have beat this issue to death, it’s not as if management is not aware of our complaint. Obviously showmanship is dead at the Ziegfeld.
Merideth, my tech was Carl Cricoli whom I sure you know. We worked together going back to my days at Sunrise in the early 80s.
Carl had his hands full when we first installed Dolby Digital sound at Hazlet. It was one of the first installations with the basement readers, which were always going out of calibration. The penthouse readers never had that problem but they were history and Carl had to make these s new ones work. It was carl who fiquered out that we should increase the voltage output in the LEDs so the film would not go into error. Trouble with that was it also shortened the life span of the LEDs. But Carl never gave up, but it sure took up a lot of his time.
Carl also had to keep the DTS units at Hazlet running, the company refused to buy parts anymore since they werer no longer buying them and were gradualy replacing them with Dolby Digital.
Carl would take parts from one two broken DTS units to make up one good one. he was a big help to me.
Meredith,you must have came on board after I left in ‘02
so I don’t think we never met.
Hazlet is/was one the best in the NA chain. I know Bill very well, i hired him away from UA a few years back. he is one of the best,a very knowledgable theatre man and all around nice guy.
I hand picked him as my choice to replace me as Managing Director when i retired, he was running Amboy at the time.
Oh Bill, I hope I did not ruin the movie for you.
It has it values, the first half is not terrible but after that
it’s all down hill. Perhaps if we did not have the original I just would have chauked it up to just another so so picture. But when they call it a remake of a masterpiece they have to be more respectful of the original message and this picture does not.
I suggest you see Frost/Nixon to get the bad taste out of your mouth and see a really good picture. Outstanding actually.
Just to keep things somewhat on topic, isn’t it grand to have Craig aboard to listen to our suggestions and allow us to be a part of the Ziegfeld’s classic film choices.
I am happy to have heard from Russ, thanks you so very much Russ, and I have come to the conclusion that the whole ugly affair was simply a glitch and my post was deleted though no fault of anyone in particular.
Unless of course someone at fox read it and did not appreciate the fact that I thought the movie was rubbish :)
Sorry could not resist that.
Truth is, the new generation will probably like (not love) it but many of us here at CT will not. I can also see why Clearview did not play the picture at the Ziegfeld.
Happily Robert Wise will not have to suffer through what has been done to his masterpiece.
But enough about TDTEST. Let me say thanks so very much to all of you who came to my defense and wrote so many kind things about me. It’s nice to be appreciated and I have always enjoyed this site so very much. Now that we have heard from the guys running this site we can all move on and put this misunderstand behind us.
The more I think about this the more irritated I become. Here I am a retired gentleman with a ton of information and thought to share in theses forums, something I have been doing for quite some time now. My posts, for the most part, have been informative and fun and I have tried to give the reader a sense of what it was like to have worked in the glory days if the Cinema Treasures. So if now and then I pepper my comments with an off topic post like the one regarding the screening I attended of the God awful remake of TDTESS, so what? I should think someone who has contributed so much to theses forums should have license to get off the beaten track from time to time. Never mind the fact that the majority of the folks reading them seen to appreciate and enjoy reading them. Quite honestly if that is the case than I no longer want to be a part of this website. How sad
Thanks Bill
I had the same problem Bill
I wrote about the dreadfull remake of
“The Day The earth Stood Still” but it never appeasred.
Many HS graduations were held at the St. George as well
Pretty common in the 40s and 50s, also at the Paramount and Ritz
View link
Bob, I loved that clip as well. If only to once again see and hear that wonderful Eyes and Ears Paramount News opening and closing :)
Ohhhh I have to jump in here.
I am always thrilled when I her of the problems with Digital pojection. Computers will and always will do what ever they please anytime they please, and as a rule we have little or no control over that. The kinds of problems outlined in that article are just the tip of the iceburg, To those who thought missed changeovers and platter jams were bad, Let me quote the great Al Jolson and say
“You ain’t seen nothing yet.
The picture and sound quality is rather good I will admit, but it is not all that much better than good ole film, especially 70mm.
I also believe the guys switching to Digital are doing it for one reason and one reason alone, MONEY. The long range savings are huge for just about everyone from the studios to the theatre owners, but the long range will also bring problems that will make them wish for the day when the had the stabilty of motion picture film.
You know the confidence has to be low when at Radio City Music Hall when ever they run anything Digital a film backup is run at the same time just in case.
Don’t be to quick to put that final nail in films coffin, cause like Dracula it will rise again. At least that is what this silly old man hopes for anyway. Digital instead of film?…Humbug!
Rob, who among us did not wait with batted breath for the new Boxoffice to come in the mail :)
Glad you liked it Bill, I like to think we were a special breed of guys in those days.
mjc, in those days all of the B'way houses had at least two men on for each shift. RCMH had 3 or 4 I beleive but I never saw more than two at a time at the Roxy. each man would be responsible for a projector, threading, cleaning and making the change over to his machine. They never left their assigned projector keeping an eye on focus and carbon trimming at all times.
We also had reel boys who were basically apprentices learning the ropes.
Yes Rob It was the larger one, the smaller one was used mostly for running Movietone News dailies and was a very hectic place to be.
MGM also had a screening room on another floor of the Fox building which was used for News of the Day. MGM had their cutting and sound editing rooms for the news there as well.Those News departmente were a hot bed of activity, turning out newsreels faster than a speedy bullet. I seem to recall RCMH having had two or three newsreels a week delivered from several of the major studios. The Music Hall staff would then piece together the best parts to create RCMH News.
I wondered what became of that building, I have not been in that area in years. I used to take the subway to 42nd/Times Square and then walk up B'way to, what was it, 51st street? and then down to the Fox/Deluxe building which cornered 10th Ave.
A wonderful blast from the past.
Just click on the article to enlarge and read the entire piece.
REndres if you have not already seen this you will love it.
View link
My first visit to the Roxy booth was back in the 50s when I was just a kid working for 20th Century Fox, the Roxy had been played most of our pictures. The thing that surprised me was the size, it was only about 10 x 20. That seemed rather small, in fact the screening room on the 6th floor of the Fox home office (called the little theatre) was larger. I wonder if anyone else saw the inside of that booth, I know in the photo it seems to indicate three projectors but I only recall there being two. I was a long time ago and I visited a lot of booths so I am just going on memory here, but I believe I am correct.