JSA put it beautifully. His comments express exactly my sentiments on the issue. Please consider the single-screen widescreen showcase New York needs so desperately, but, regardless, best wishes and good luck!
Just to correct RobertR (and save Kim2 any embarassment) the Fair Theater in Queens is NOT running Bollywood fare but is showing XXX porn. I’m sure RobertR meant the former Mayfair Theater in Fresh Meadows, Queens, that is indeed showing Bollywood films under the name Bombay Theater. All of these theaters are listed on Cinema Treasures.
Bob… I think it’s fair to say that Martin &Lewis have a very strong connection to the Paramount. Just as Sinatra does. Sure they played other stages in New York, but I think the image most of us have in our minds when thinking of M&L in New York is of their antics from the dressing room window and the mob scene below on W. 44th Street.
AlexNYC, I believe Warren’s photos are of the theater that previously occupied the site of the RKO Proctor’s 58th. The latter Proctor was an atmospheric design, which the former clearly was not. Warren did post a photo of the atmospheric Proctor back on July 8th, which still very much validates your lamentation on its passing.
I agree that the Ziegfeld is too deep to make seating in the raised section at the rear an enjoyable experience for my tastes. Typically, I like to sit about 10-12 rows back and dead center in most theaters. From this vantage point, I think the Ziegfeld makes for an awesome movie going experience. A tip of the cap to the Loews auditorium at the Lincoln Square, as Deester correctly points out – that is a superb place to see a movie.
Are they running an intermission for “The Godfather, Part II” at the Ziegfeld? That film is well over 3 hours and I was curious if they planned on having intermission with some of the longer films – particularly “Ben Hur” which has entr'acte music in its restored version. I’m sure that “Braveheart” and “Gladiator” where presented without intermission during their initial theatrical release, but I wonder if that’s a purely American development. Do intermissions survive in foreign markets? If so, do filmmakers still keep a spot in mind for the break when assembling prints for overseas distribution? I imagine they’d have to insert an “intermission” card wherever the film is projected from a platter. Or is this a completely antiquated concept that now exists only in the memories of aging film enthusiasts like myself?
There’s a news item on the home page here announcing someone’s desire to take this theater over and revive it as a center for live performance and independent film house. The plan is to have several auditoriums. I’m happy someone has interest in the place, I just wish there was a viable plan to restore it to single screen use and as a showcase for Cinerama presentation. Whatever the outcome, I hope it involves restoration of any original architectural character that might have been buried behind modernizations and multi-plexing that occured over the years.
That would have been the old Forum 47th which became B.S. Moss' Movieland in the ‘80’s. Without checking the page, I think it was built and opened as the Central Theater. I believe it is listed here under the Movieland name. It’s one of the few Times Square theaters I never got a chance to visit before it was razed. The old storefronts on Broadway between 47th and 46th – where the theater’s main entrance was – are still standing, including the former Howard Johnson’s (now vacant) and former Horn & Hardart automat (now two level discount retailer). The Roxy Deli (adjacent to the old H&H) occupies Movieland’s former entrance and lobby space.
Cheebs… I had the the same experience waiting outside to see Santana at the Academy as you did with Duran. It came down cats and dogs. Lining up early paid off, however, as my friend and I were right at the lip of the stage for the show and Vernon Reid showed up to jam w/ Carlos. That was probably ‘94? That was the last General Admission concert I ever attended. Standing in the rain all that time and then having to stand for the concert in a soaking wet shirt did not exactly do wonders for my back. Nowadays, in my dotage, I prefer the more genteel arrangement of reserved seating!
I miss the honky tonk of 42nd as well. The Grand Luncheonette under the Selwyn marquee. The phony ID hawkers and pot dealers tucked into every other door way. The billboards and display cases filled with stills advertising the lurid fare in each of the grindhouses outer vestibules. Those were the good ole bad ole days…
I’ve been thinking about this and I agree with Ian and Brian’s take that this is a photo taken from the former stage housing on the north end of the building (with W. 44th street at our backs) and looking south into the house. That would make sense with the incoming streams of sunlight, which, in New York City, would likely signify a southern exposure. I know the southern exterior facade had those vertical windows from a photo Warren had posted a while back. Those windows would be along the left side of the Grand Foyer photo – but were they covered over anyway by the interior plasterwork? A similar situation might have existed on the stage side of the building along W. 44th street. A look at that footage of Martin and Lewis leaning out of the dressing room window would reveal if that was the case. If so, the windows(at least the first 5 floors or so) on both sides of the building were merely for decorative and non-functional purposes. If you were to look at an exterior photo of either facade, it was almost as if the design was to convey the illusion of a standard office building and protect the secret that, in fact, a vast and glorious theatrical space was contained within.
That’s the Fantasy, BG0007… at least as it used to be. Remember that the theater that stands today has been completely remodeled inside and out. You can make out the shell of the auditorium in that photo starting behind the lobby area that fronts N. Park Ave.
I remember mostly going to the RKO Twin around the corner but I did attend the Fantasy on a couple of occasions in the very early 1980’s. I can’t say for certain that the marquee depicted in the photo was still there, but it looks familar. I think I came here for a late evening showing of Carl Reiner’s “Where’s Poppa” that I think might have also included a 2nd feature – either “Harold & Maude” or “The Groove Tube.” The Ruth Gordon connection makes “Harold” the obvious choice, but I might be thinking about a double feature sometime later at Manhattan’s Hollywood Twin that featured those two films. And “Groove” was usually paired with John Landis' “Kentucky Fried Movie.”
I also seem to remember seeing an obscure horror spoof from France here called “Dracula and Son” which starred Chirstopher Lee reprising his famous role, this time for laughs. I sat in the balcony for that one and recall admiring the theater’s impressive, albeit fading, atmosphere. Did the Fantasy always have this sort of creative booking policy around this time? I’m thinking 1979 – 1982 or so. I might have also seen (for the very first time) Kubrick’s “A Clockwork Orange” here at a midnight showing – but I’m not positive this was the theater.
In 2004, I went back to the Fantasy for the first time in 20 or more years to see the Renny Harlin version of “The Exorcist: The Beginning” in one of the upstairs theaters. I knew the location, but didn’t recognize the exterior or the interior of the place at all. It reminded me a bit of the way the Century Meadows theater in Queens had been gutted to its outer walls and completely reconfigured into a multiplex. At least the Fresh Meadows (as it is now called) still looks like the old place from the outside. The renovations of both theaters suffer from being completed before the much more comfortable stadium-style auditoriums came into vogue – making it even more annoying that all traces of the original decor have been lost to the ages.
Jim… Perhaps if it were possible to enlarge the demolition photo enough to make out the buildings across the street that were facing those windows, we might be able to determine which view it is. Across W. 44th street would have been the side facade of the Hotel Astor. I’m less sure of what would have been across W. 43rd except for maybe the rear facade of the Victory Theater.
Patsy… I haven’t seen a really great view of the old auditorium. That shot of the VistaVision screen is about the best I’ve seen. There is a color image of an artist’s rendering of the full proscenium that was posted back on December 15th by Jim Rankin.
Has anyone seen the small ads appearing in newspapers today (at least here in NYC)? “AMC welcomes Loews to the family! Combining two respected names into one.” The AMC logo with its cursive “Experience the Difference” tag appears in the lower left corner, with the familiar Loews Cineplex spotlight logo in the lower right corner.
Understood, Warren. I thought as much. Otherwise, that might have made for some hectic scrambling out on W. 45th Street! Fortunately, vehicular traffic was probably not what it is today in that area.
Still no print ads anywhere in the local papers, but there is {url=]this New York Post article[/url] from Lou Lumenick about the series. I submitted a news item to Cinema Treasures today to try and spread the word beyond this particular page. In any event, I have plans with my gal to see “West Side Story” next weekend and “Ben-Hur” the weekend after that. Plus, the kids are all excited to see “Raiders of the Lost Ark” on the big screen in March. I hope word of mouth and the Post article can generate enough interest to make this program a great success and encourage Clearview to try it again somewhere down the line.
So the actors would prepare for the show at the former New York theater facilities and then cross W. 45th in full makeup to make their way into the State? That is pretty remarkable. It must have been hell on any performers who appeared in more than one scene and had to change costumes and makeup!
Vincent… I hear you on the smug nature of some of the writing, but I can’t pick up the News or Post because there’s little coherency in the writing – it’s all tabloid style with no stimulation of my intellect. Newsday is well written, but the features are too specific to Long Island to suit my needs. I also love William Safire’s “On Language” column and the crossword in the Sunday magazine. And, I must admit, my politics do lean to the left, though I rarely read the editorials.
Jim… I always thought that the view in that demolition photo was from the 43rd street side of the theater structure – from approximately where the grand foyer was – looking towards the 44th street – or stage side – wall. The wall on the left – with floor and interior wall structures exposed, might be where offices and dressing rooms were located. Of course, the view may also be precisely the opposite – looking from the stage end at 44th street towards the 44th street side. I know the vertical windows shown in the photo match what I’ve seen of the exterior 43rd street side of that structure – not sure if there were similar windows behind the stage area on 44th. If you look through those windows where light is streaming in, the view outside definitely seems to be one of the side streets and not Broadway. If the light pouring through was wear the great facade window was, we’d be looking out onto Times Square – not to mention that the extent of the gutting would seem to reach deep into the office tower, which was not the case. The office tower that fronts Broadway is either out of frame towards the right of that photo or behind the exposed wall depicted on the left, depending on whether the view is towards the north or south.
The 1926 circular lobby photo appears to be of the vestibule corridor that ran through the Paramount office tower connecting the entrance on Broadway (which would be on the lower left side of the photo) with the grand foyer, as described by Warren when he first posted the image. This image seems to be looking north with the chandelier hanging in front of that grand arched facade window we’ve been talking about (just out of frame to the right) and behind those “lunettes” would be regular office space within the tower.
The Laurelton Theater is located between 227th and 228th streets on the south side of Merrick Blvd. It is still there in operation as a church. It was a cozy little nabe that usually played double features consisting of a major film on late run (I recall both “Jaws” and “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” as lead pictures during 1975) paired with a low budget action flick (“Framed” with Joe Don Baker and “That Man Bolt” with Fred Williamson come to mind). They also often played a cartoon or Three Stooges short between features, when the program was more child-freindly). I think it had a balcony, but I can’t recall for sure.
When the theater was gutted, the facade was completely stripped – including the marquee, the entrance, doors, windows, etc. That portion of the building was then rebuilt to match the motif you see on the rest of facade (with columns of triple paned windows and cast iron spandrels between floors), erasing all evidence that the theater entrance had ever existed. I don’t know if any of the glass work was saved (or more likely pilfered) during the demolition, but the pane with the 1501 address on the recreation is the approximate location of where the Paramount logo existed on the original.
There is a St. James Theater right down the block on the same side of W. 44th Street, which is a legitimate Broadway theater that currently houses the smash hit musical “The Producers.” Not sure if it’s the same theater mentioned in the book.
Sadly true about the Times' involvement in (at worst) and indifference to (at best) the destruction of the areas once great movie houses. Still… I can’t seem to live without reading the Arts & Leisure, Real Estate, Metro, City and Book Review sections each and every Sunday. Additionally, their movie reviews have routinely been the most literate and thoughtful among those of the City’s daily papers.
Patsy… Check out my post of December 5th. I took a bunch of photos of the current facade and marquee as well as the storefronts and restaurants that now occupy the ground level of the 44th Street facade that once housed the backstage area. This is the area where those 1950’s crowds cheered for Lewis & Martin as they hung out of their dressing room window 6 stories up. The cut for the original stage door is still there (the 3rd photo in my post).
Meanwhile, here are some of Warren’s excellent photographic finds from previous posts:
Grand Foyer – This ran parellel to W. 43rd (through the exit doors on the left) with the doors leading to the auditorium on the right. Circular Lobby/Vestibule – Entrance doors from Broadway can be seen on the lower level in the right in this picture (this is the space now used as an entrance by the Hard Rock Cafe – with the actual restaurant in the basement below). VistaVision screen – A shot of the newly installed screen. Exterior shot – You can see the deeper recess to the glass work above the original marquee here.
I figured as much, hardbop. If you read back to the top of this page, it seems they’ve been running straight movies on the main screen (probably by projection of video tape) for some time, while running porn in video booths elsewhere in the theater. So much for a “new policy!”
JSA put it beautifully. His comments express exactly my sentiments on the issue. Please consider the single-screen widescreen showcase New York needs so desperately, but, regardless, best wishes and good luck!
Just to correct RobertR (and save Kim2 any embarassment) the Fair Theater in Queens is NOT running Bollywood fare but is showing XXX porn. I’m sure RobertR meant the former Mayfair Theater in Fresh Meadows, Queens, that is indeed showing Bollywood films under the name Bombay Theater. All of these theaters are listed on Cinema Treasures.
Bob… I think it’s fair to say that Martin &Lewis have a very strong connection to the Paramount. Just as Sinatra does. Sure they played other stages in New York, but I think the image most of us have in our minds when thinking of M&L in New York is of their antics from the dressing room window and the mob scene below on W. 44th Street.
AlexNYC, I believe Warren’s photos are of the theater that previously occupied the site of the RKO Proctor’s 58th. The latter Proctor was an atmospheric design, which the former clearly was not. Warren did post a photo of the atmospheric Proctor back on July 8th, which still very much validates your lamentation on its passing.
I agree that the Ziegfeld is too deep to make seating in the raised section at the rear an enjoyable experience for my tastes. Typically, I like to sit about 10-12 rows back and dead center in most theaters. From this vantage point, I think the Ziegfeld makes for an awesome movie going experience. A tip of the cap to the Loews auditorium at the Lincoln Square, as Deester correctly points out – that is a superb place to see a movie.
Are they running an intermission for “The Godfather, Part II” at the Ziegfeld? That film is well over 3 hours and I was curious if they planned on having intermission with some of the longer films – particularly “Ben Hur” which has entr'acte music in its restored version. I’m sure that “Braveheart” and “Gladiator” where presented without intermission during their initial theatrical release, but I wonder if that’s a purely American development. Do intermissions survive in foreign markets? If so, do filmmakers still keep a spot in mind for the break when assembling prints for overseas distribution? I imagine they’d have to insert an “intermission” card wherever the film is projected from a platter. Or is this a completely antiquated concept that now exists only in the memories of aging film enthusiasts like myself?
There’s a news item on the home page here announcing someone’s desire to take this theater over and revive it as a center for live performance and independent film house. The plan is to have several auditoriums. I’m happy someone has interest in the place, I just wish there was a viable plan to restore it to single screen use and as a showcase for Cinerama presentation. Whatever the outcome, I hope it involves restoration of any original architectural character that might have been buried behind modernizations and multi-plexing that occured over the years.
That would have been the old Forum 47th which became B.S. Moss' Movieland in the ‘80’s. Without checking the page, I think it was built and opened as the Central Theater. I believe it is listed here under the Movieland name. It’s one of the few Times Square theaters I never got a chance to visit before it was razed. The old storefronts on Broadway between 47th and 46th – where the theater’s main entrance was – are still standing, including the former Howard Johnson’s (now vacant) and former Horn & Hardart automat (now two level discount retailer). The Roxy Deli (adjacent to the old H&H) occupies Movieland’s former entrance and lobby space.
Where exactly was Club USA, Luis? And what former theater did it occupy?
Cheebs… I had the the same experience waiting outside to see Santana at the Academy as you did with Duran. It came down cats and dogs. Lining up early paid off, however, as my friend and I were right at the lip of the stage for the show and Vernon Reid showed up to jam w/ Carlos. That was probably ‘94? That was the last General Admission concert I ever attended. Standing in the rain all that time and then having to stand for the concert in a soaking wet shirt did not exactly do wonders for my back. Nowadays, in my dotage, I prefer the more genteel arrangement of reserved seating!
I miss the honky tonk of 42nd as well. The Grand Luncheonette under the Selwyn marquee. The phony ID hawkers and pot dealers tucked into every other door way. The billboards and display cases filled with stills advertising the lurid fare in each of the grindhouses outer vestibules. Those were the good ole bad ole days…
I’ve been thinking about this and I agree with Ian and Brian’s take that this is a photo taken from the former stage housing on the north end of the building (with W. 44th street at our backs) and looking south into the house. That would make sense with the incoming streams of sunlight, which, in New York City, would likely signify a southern exposure. I know the southern exterior facade had those vertical windows from a photo Warren had posted a while back. Those windows would be along the left side of the Grand Foyer photo – but were they covered over anyway by the interior plasterwork? A similar situation might have existed on the stage side of the building along W. 44th street. A look at that footage of Martin and Lewis leaning out of the dressing room window would reveal if that was the case. If so, the windows(at least the first 5 floors or so) on both sides of the building were merely for decorative and non-functional purposes. If you were to look at an exterior photo of either facade, it was almost as if the design was to convey the illusion of a standard office building and protect the secret that, in fact, a vast and glorious theatrical space was contained within.
That’s the Fantasy, BG0007… at least as it used to be. Remember that the theater that stands today has been completely remodeled inside and out. You can make out the shell of the auditorium in that photo starting behind the lobby area that fronts N. Park Ave.
I remember mostly going to the RKO Twin around the corner but I did attend the Fantasy on a couple of occasions in the very early 1980’s. I can’t say for certain that the marquee depicted in the photo was still there, but it looks familar. I think I came here for a late evening showing of Carl Reiner’s “Where’s Poppa” that I think might have also included a 2nd feature – either “Harold & Maude” or “The Groove Tube.” The Ruth Gordon connection makes “Harold” the obvious choice, but I might be thinking about a double feature sometime later at Manhattan’s Hollywood Twin that featured those two films. And “Groove” was usually paired with John Landis' “Kentucky Fried Movie.”
I also seem to remember seeing an obscure horror spoof from France here called “Dracula and Son” which starred Chirstopher Lee reprising his famous role, this time for laughs. I sat in the balcony for that one and recall admiring the theater’s impressive, albeit fading, atmosphere. Did the Fantasy always have this sort of creative booking policy around this time? I’m thinking 1979 – 1982 or so. I might have also seen (for the very first time) Kubrick’s “A Clockwork Orange” here at a midnight showing – but I’m not positive this was the theater.
In 2004, I went back to the Fantasy for the first time in 20 or more years to see the Renny Harlin version of “The Exorcist: The Beginning” in one of the upstairs theaters. I knew the location, but didn’t recognize the exterior or the interior of the place at all. It reminded me a bit of the way the Century Meadows theater in Queens had been gutted to its outer walls and completely reconfigured into a multiplex. At least the Fresh Meadows (as it is now called) still looks like the old place from the outside. The renovations of both theaters suffer from being completed before the much more comfortable stadium-style auditoriums came into vogue – making it even more annoying that all traces of the original decor have been lost to the ages.
Jim… Perhaps if it were possible to enlarge the demolition photo enough to make out the buildings across the street that were facing those windows, we might be able to determine which view it is. Across W. 44th street would have been the side facade of the Hotel Astor. I’m less sure of what would have been across W. 43rd except for maybe the rear facade of the Victory Theater.
Patsy… I haven’t seen a really great view of the old auditorium. That shot of the VistaVision screen is about the best I’ve seen. There is a color image of an artist’s rendering of the full proscenium that was posted back on December 15th by Jim Rankin.
Has anyone seen the small ads appearing in newspapers today (at least here in NYC)? “AMC welcomes Loews to the family! Combining two respected names into one.” The AMC logo with its cursive “Experience the Difference” tag appears in the lower left corner, with the familiar Loews Cineplex spotlight logo in the lower right corner.
Understood, Warren. I thought as much. Otherwise, that might have made for some hectic scrambling out on W. 45th Street! Fortunately, vehicular traffic was probably not what it is today in that area.
Sorry… forgot the link!
http://www.nypost.com/entertainment/62811.htm
Still no print ads anywhere in the local papers, but there is {url=]this New York Post article[/url] from Lou Lumenick about the series. I submitted a news item to Cinema Treasures today to try and spread the word beyond this particular page. In any event, I have plans with my gal to see “West Side Story” next weekend and “Ben-Hur” the weekend after that. Plus, the kids are all excited to see “Raiders of the Lost Ark” on the big screen in March. I hope word of mouth and the Post article can generate enough interest to make this program a great success and encourage Clearview to try it again somewhere down the line.
So the actors would prepare for the show at the former New York theater facilities and then cross W. 45th in full makeup to make their way into the State? That is pretty remarkable. It must have been hell on any performers who appeared in more than one scene and had to change costumes and makeup!
Vincent… I hear you on the smug nature of some of the writing, but I can’t pick up the News or Post because there’s little coherency in the writing – it’s all tabloid style with no stimulation of my intellect. Newsday is well written, but the features are too specific to Long Island to suit my needs. I also love William Safire’s “On Language” column and the crossword in the Sunday magazine. And, I must admit, my politics do lean to the left, though I rarely read the editorials.
Jim… I always thought that the view in that demolition photo was from the 43rd street side of the theater structure – from approximately where the grand foyer was – looking towards the 44th street – or stage side – wall. The wall on the left – with floor and interior wall structures exposed, might be where offices and dressing rooms were located. Of course, the view may also be precisely the opposite – looking from the stage end at 44th street towards the 44th street side. I know the vertical windows shown in the photo match what I’ve seen of the exterior 43rd street side of that structure – not sure if there were similar windows behind the stage area on 44th. If you look through those windows where light is streaming in, the view outside definitely seems to be one of the side streets and not Broadway. If the light pouring through was wear the great facade window was, we’d be looking out onto Times Square – not to mention that the extent of the gutting would seem to reach deep into the office tower, which was not the case. The office tower that fronts Broadway is either out of frame towards the right of that photo or behind the exposed wall depicted on the left, depending on whether the view is towards the north or south.
The 1926 circular lobby photo appears to be of the vestibule corridor that ran through the Paramount office tower connecting the entrance on Broadway (which would be on the lower left side of the photo) with the grand foyer, as described by Warren when he first posted the image. This image seems to be looking north with the chandelier hanging in front of that grand arched facade window we’ve been talking about (just out of frame to the right) and behind those “lunettes” would be regular office space within the tower.
Does that make sense?
I stand (or rather, sit at my computer) corrected, Warren. Thanks.
The Laurelton Theater is located between 227th and 228th streets on the south side of Merrick Blvd. It is still there in operation as a church. It was a cozy little nabe that usually played double features consisting of a major film on late run (I recall both “Jaws” and “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” as lead pictures during 1975) paired with a low budget action flick (“Framed” with Joe Don Baker and “That Man Bolt” with Fred Williamson come to mind). They also often played a cartoon or Three Stooges short between features, when the program was more child-freindly). I think it had a balcony, but I can’t recall for sure.
When the theater was gutted, the facade was completely stripped – including the marquee, the entrance, doors, windows, etc. That portion of the building was then rebuilt to match the motif you see on the rest of facade (with columns of triple paned windows and cast iron spandrels between floors), erasing all evidence that the theater entrance had ever existed. I don’t know if any of the glass work was saved (or more likely pilfered) during the demolition, but the pane with the 1501 address on the recreation is the approximate location of where the Paramount logo existed on the original.
There is a St. James Theater right down the block on the same side of W. 44th Street, which is a legitimate Broadway theater that currently houses the smash hit musical “The Producers.” Not sure if it’s the same theater mentioned in the book.
Sadly true about the Times' involvement in (at worst) and indifference to (at best) the destruction of the areas once great movie houses. Still… I can’t seem to live without reading the Arts & Leisure, Real Estate, Metro, City and Book Review sections each and every Sunday. Additionally, their movie reviews have routinely been the most literate and thoughtful among those of the City’s daily papers.
Patsy… Check out my post of December 5th. I took a bunch of photos of the current facade and marquee as well as the storefronts and restaurants that now occupy the ground level of the 44th Street facade that once housed the backstage area. This is the area where those 1950’s crowds cheered for Lewis & Martin as they hung out of their dressing room window 6 stories up. The cut for the original stage door is still there (the 3rd photo in my post).
Meanwhile, here are some of Warren’s excellent photographic finds from previous posts:
Grand Foyer – This ran parellel to W. 43rd (through the exit doors on the left) with the doors leading to the auditorium on the right.
Circular Lobby/Vestibule – Entrance doors from Broadway can be seen on the lower level in the right in this picture (this is the space now used as an entrance by the Hard Rock Cafe – with the actual restaurant in the basement below).
VistaVision screen – A shot of the newly installed screen.
Exterior shot – You can see the deeper recess to the glass work above the original marquee here.
I figured as much, hardbop. If you read back to the top of this page, it seems they’ve been running straight movies on the main screen (probably by projection of video tape) for some time, while running porn in video booths elsewhere in the theater. So much for a “new policy!”