John, sorry about the Myasthenia :–( I did a rotation at Rush in 2003 (Children’s Hospital of course). HUGE hospital!! I lost 5 pounds that month just from all the walking, so I know what you mean!
Thanks for the site John! It’s almost like being back home :–) The photos are nice, especially of St. Catherine’s of Genoa th and Lowe. It merged in the 90s with Assumption BVM (123rd &Parnell I think). My aunt worked at both.
Thanks for knowing what it feels like to be out here. People always ask why in the world would I want to go back to Chicago – but that’s where my heart is. Winter weather is great but it just isn’t Chicago! Luckily I get to go home for Christmas.
Hi Derrick! Yes I know the Hoagy shop – I believe that it is still there on 111th street. So your family came after my family moved in, as we’ve been on King Drive since 1974. Most of my friends in the neighborhood went to Pullman, and a few of my friends also went to Julian as did your wife.
Are you referring to the donut shop on 112th &Michigan on the west side of the street? If so they are still there (I believe they opened in the early 70s) and they have delicious, decadent donuts.
As for the park (Palmer) I spent many, many hours there as a kid/teen. I don’t know Mrs. Grant, but every block/every other block had a ‘candy lady’ who sold snacks :–)
I miss Roseland too and can’t wait to go back home! I am very homesick out here in California :–( Take care all!
John – I didn’t know that the new course is over the dump! I didn’t know the CSU golfers play there. It looks so pretty that you’d never know it was once a dump.
Doug – I remember the Home Stores too. The Baptist church that was once housed in the Catholic church th and Indiana ran a religious bookstore out of the Home Store th &Michigan before moving to the old DeKoven; that whole mart at 115th and Michigan now is torn down. Plaza Hardware relocated farther down on 115th.
BTW that Baptist Church now has a HUGE bldg at 114th &Doty.
Yes the last movie listed on the Normal marquee was Fort Apache, the Bronx, prior to it being torn down. The last movies I saw there were:
Cornbread, Earl & Me
It’s Alive and Adios Amigos (a double feature).
I also seem to remember seeing The Omen there. I remember the theater being a nice alternative to going downtown.
Did anyone ever go to Cal Harbor Restaurant? For years it was on the corner of 115th and Cottage right across from the IC station. It moved to the other end of the block, still on 115th street. I think the new location is bigger.
Doug, I loved going to Gately’s People store too when I was a little girl. I remember my parents bought me this great yellow bookbag from there. It closed many years ago. There is some scaffolding now at the parking garage – I don’t know if it will be torn down or if there will be revitalization. In the late 80s there was a nice teen club in the Gately’s bldg on the north side of the bldg, down the hill. They served snacks and had nice music and a dance floor. Did you know Gately’s now does sales online?
To John: Doty is still a 2-lane road on both sides of the Calumet Expressway. Speaking of golf, there is a new golf course with a lake at 109th and Doty and it’s really beautiful. I’ve been to the banquet hall there 2ce in the past year. Let me assure you that Sherwin Williams still causes a stink sometimes! About 10 years ago there was some accident there that caused areas south of 115th to evacuate. About the Hotel Florence – I wanted to go on the historic tour of Pullman, but I ran out of time. The hotel still looks beautiful on the outside.
I think I remember that soda fountain you mentioned. There was a restaurant there, still with the counter &stools, but it closed some years ago.
The LA riots in the early 1990s sucked. Discrimination is wrong regardless of who does it and to whom its being done. And about your dad – even if he was an Archie Bunker type, even Archie was lovable, so I’m sure your dad was too. Take care :–)
I am so sorry your dad experienced that. I remember the last white resident on our block and he was so nice. He moved in the early 90s to a retirement village. He was very involved in the mural painted under the Metra tracks at 113th between Cottage Grove and Front Street. BTW if you ever visit again and get to see the mural, check out the south side of the mural on the Cottage Grove side. The painting shows an African-American lady with shoulder length hair and glasses who is sewing with two children looking on. That lady is my mother :–). She was very involved in the mural project as well.
I know exactly where you used to live – I go to the post office there when I am visiting. I have found through my online research in the past few days that Mendel used to be Pullman tech. That’s so interesting because I only knew it as Mendel.
I remember in the early days when we didn’t lock our outer door – we didn’t even have a lock on it. It’s unfortunate. However, it is slowly changing for the better. There is a minister who has a church at 115th and Doty (his church originally was in a former Catholic church at around 118th and Indiana, but the congregation outgrew the building) who campaigned with concerned residents several years ago to remove the liquor stores and taverns from the neighborhood. I was a part of that group while in college @Chicago State. Unfortunately that put Pullman Wine & Liquors out of business, and it was a great store that sold deli items and regular grocery/household needs. I believe the closest place to buy alcohol is at 119th and Michigan (ironically).
That is so interesting about the bushes around Palmer Park. I had forgotten all about them!
I don’t think you made up the deterioration and crime at all. I have had a different experience than you and your dad, but then again I also had a totally different experience than my younger brother who did have to deal with people in gangs harassing him (particularly because he was very involved with school) but also from police harassment as well. As a teen in the 1980s/1990s I walked around the neighborhood and felt very safe. I do still feel safe, even though most of the people I knew in childhood have long since moved.
It does make me sad that there is crime in Roseland, and I am sad that a lot of the beautiful buildings have either been torn down or are not being properly maintained.
I think that when people are economically depressed, oftentimes they don’t know that there are better options out there because they can’t even fathom achieving what they don’t see. And that attitude is passed on to their children, and so on, until you have several generations of people who don’t live well and who don’t even know they can have and do better. Unfortunately it makes the whole community look bad when there are a few bad apples. Some of the business owners have contributed to the decline. There was a store at 112th and Michigan that sold liquor and drug paraphernalia. Other restaurants sold very unhealthy fast food. The owners of many such stores were from the Middle East. I doubt that I could have opened such a store in their community selling that garbage, but they felt it was ok to sell it to African Americans who made them pretty wealthy. Once again, when people don’t know they deserve better, they accept less than they should.
I really respect you for sharing your experiences with me, and I feel bad that we both remember a Roseland that was so different than it is today. I pray that through the community projects going on and people who are working to make Roseland safer and lovely again, that it will once again be a nice place to live. I try not to despair too much because to restore Roseland even to what it was in the mid 1980s is such a daunting task. I try to stay optimistic because it is my home and I do care about the community and the people.
PS I remember the White Castle next to the YMCA very well from my childhood. I miss it! And I remember going to the Normal to see movies. The last movies I remember seeing there were:
– Cornbread, Earl & Me
– It’s Alive (it scared me to death!!)
– Adios Amigos
(the last 2 movies were a double feature)
Hi John! Thanks for your response. Yes I drove down Michigan a lot when I was home! I live outside of Los Angeles right now (where I am completing pediatrics residency) and can’t get good Chinese food out here, so one of my favorite haunts when I go home is The New Tea Garden restaurant which is across the street from the Roseland Theater. I last visited on Saturday night (10/7/06) at about 10:20 pm just before closing.
I hadn’t heard about proposed closing of Fenger – I will ask my mom about it as she works for CPS in the office of high school programs. That would be horrible to close it, and a sad reason to do so.
In actuality, my experience is that white people have an easier time walking through economically depressed neighborhoods. So many shootings that occur are mistaken identity (usually African- and Latino-Americans victims) in such neighborhoods. I have been followed by police when driving during the day in neighborhoods such as Beverly, the Kenwood area and Oak Park (I go there at times to look at homes for sale) – I haven’t been driving a beat up car, I am not blasting music, I am not harassing residents, and I am only 5 feet tall so I can’t look that menacing. When the white Mormon teens visit Roseland doing missionary work, they move through the neighborhood freely and no one bothers them. I am not saying that is true all the time, because of course I don’t have stats on that, but it is sad when ANY person can’t walk the streets safely. I was very young, but I remember African-American children being chased and being beaten up by white children who attended Pullman school back in the early-mid 70s. It wasn’t right then, and it isn’t right for ANYONE to be unsafe in any neighborhood.
And BTW, I do walk down the streets of Roseland during the day and night, and thankfully I have been safe. I am looking to return to Roseland to practice pediatrics after I am done with residency so that I can do my part to help uplift the community by doing outreach at schools, local youth organizations, etc.
I welcome continued dialog with you, John. Maybe I can help you understand current Roseland residents, and maybe you can share your experiences in Roseland when you were younger. Take care :–)
Wow – John Stitnizky seems to have a low opinion of the Roseland residents of today! Maybe I am just misreading his posts, particulary the one about Roseland residents living like animals and not likely living until they grow up (I hope I am misreading the post!). Bad people can be products of any neighborhood, race, culture, religion, etc., and the same holds true for good people. Roseland has produced doctors, computer tech whizzes, CPAs, educators (all from my immediate family I might add), as well as attorneys, nurses, corporate types, police officers, etc, etc – not just people who are economically and socially depressed.
My family moved to Roseland in 1974 after buying the home from a family named Panozzo; our home is on South King Drive (formerly South Park Drive). We still own our home today. I would love it if anyone had old photos of my street, or of the neighborhood in general, that can be shared.
FYI – I was just home. Roseland Theater bldg has been revamped and will be offices, not a strip mall (unless plans change).
Natalie Santiago, MD – I managed to grow up quite nicely :–)
John, sorry about the Myasthenia :–( I did a rotation at Rush in 2003 (Children’s Hospital of course). HUGE hospital!! I lost 5 pounds that month just from all the walking, so I know what you mean!
Thanks for the site John! It’s almost like being back home :–) The photos are nice, especially of St. Catherine’s of Genoa th and Lowe. It merged in the 90s with Assumption BVM (123rd &Parnell I think). My aunt worked at both.
Thanks for knowing what it feels like to be out here. People always ask why in the world would I want to go back to Chicago – but that’s where my heart is. Winter weather is great but it just isn’t Chicago! Luckily I get to go home for Christmas.
Hi Derrick! Yes I know the Hoagy shop – I believe that it is still there on 111th street. So your family came after my family moved in, as we’ve been on King Drive since 1974. Most of my friends in the neighborhood went to Pullman, and a few of my friends also went to Julian as did your wife.
Are you referring to the donut shop on 112th &Michigan on the west side of the street? If so they are still there (I believe they opened in the early 70s) and they have delicious, decadent donuts.
As for the park (Palmer) I spent many, many hours there as a kid/teen. I don’t know Mrs. Grant, but every block/every other block had a ‘candy lady’ who sold snacks :–)
I miss Roseland too and can’t wait to go back home! I am very homesick out here in California :–( Take care all!
John – I didn’t know that the new course is over the dump! I didn’t know the CSU golfers play there. It looks so pretty that you’d never know it was once a dump.
Doug – I remember the Home Stores too. The Baptist church that was once housed in the Catholic church th and Indiana ran a religious bookstore out of the Home Store th &Michigan before moving to the old DeKoven; that whole mart at 115th and Michigan now is torn down. Plaza Hardware relocated farther down on 115th.
BTW that Baptist Church now has a HUGE bldg at 114th &Doty.
Yes the last movie listed on the Normal marquee was Fort Apache, the Bronx, prior to it being torn down. The last movies I saw there were:
Cornbread, Earl & Me
It’s Alive and Adios Amigos (a double feature).
I also seem to remember seeing The Omen there. I remember the theater being a nice alternative to going downtown.
Did anyone ever go to Cal Harbor Restaurant? For years it was on the corner of 115th and Cottage right across from the IC station. It moved to the other end of the block, still on 115th street. I think the new location is bigger.
Doug, I loved going to Gately’s People store too when I was a little girl. I remember my parents bought me this great yellow bookbag from there. It closed many years ago. There is some scaffolding now at the parking garage – I don’t know if it will be torn down or if there will be revitalization. In the late 80s there was a nice teen club in the Gately’s bldg on the north side of the bldg, down the hill. They served snacks and had nice music and a dance floor. Did you know Gately’s now does sales online?
I am so sorry your dad experienced that. I remember the last white resident on our block and he was so nice. He moved in the early 90s to a retirement village. He was very involved in the mural painted under the Metra tracks at 113th between Cottage Grove and Front Street. BTW if you ever visit again and get to see the mural, check out the south side of the mural on the Cottage Grove side. The painting shows an African-American lady with shoulder length hair and glasses who is sewing with two children looking on. That lady is my mother :–). She was very involved in the mural project as well.
I know exactly where you used to live – I go to the post office there when I am visiting. I have found through my online research in the past few days that Mendel used to be Pullman tech. That’s so interesting because I only knew it as Mendel.
I remember in the early days when we didn’t lock our outer door – we didn’t even have a lock on it. It’s unfortunate. However, it is slowly changing for the better. There is a minister who has a church at 115th and Doty (his church originally was in a former Catholic church at around 118th and Indiana, but the congregation outgrew the building) who campaigned with concerned residents several years ago to remove the liquor stores and taverns from the neighborhood. I was a part of that group while in college @Chicago State. Unfortunately that put Pullman Wine & Liquors out of business, and it was a great store that sold deli items and regular grocery/household needs. I believe the closest place to buy alcohol is at 119th and Michigan (ironically).
That is so interesting about the bushes around Palmer Park. I had forgotten all about them!
I don’t think you made up the deterioration and crime at all. I have had a different experience than you and your dad, but then again I also had a totally different experience than my younger brother who did have to deal with people in gangs harassing him (particularly because he was very involved with school) but also from police harassment as well. As a teen in the 1980s/1990s I walked around the neighborhood and felt very safe. I do still feel safe, even though most of the people I knew in childhood have long since moved.
It does make me sad that there is crime in Roseland, and I am sad that a lot of the beautiful buildings have either been torn down or are not being properly maintained.
I think that when people are economically depressed, oftentimes they don’t know that there are better options out there because they can’t even fathom achieving what they don’t see. And that attitude is passed on to their children, and so on, until you have several generations of people who don’t live well and who don’t even know they can have and do better. Unfortunately it makes the whole community look bad when there are a few bad apples. Some of the business owners have contributed to the decline. There was a store at 112th and Michigan that sold liquor and drug paraphernalia. Other restaurants sold very unhealthy fast food. The owners of many such stores were from the Middle East. I doubt that I could have opened such a store in their community selling that garbage, but they felt it was ok to sell it to African Americans who made them pretty wealthy. Once again, when people don’t know they deserve better, they accept less than they should.
I really respect you for sharing your experiences with me, and I feel bad that we both remember a Roseland that was so different than it is today. I pray that through the community projects going on and people who are working to make Roseland safer and lovely again, that it will once again be a nice place to live. I try not to despair too much because to restore Roseland even to what it was in the mid 1980s is such a daunting task. I try to stay optimistic because it is my home and I do care about the community and the people.
PS I remember the White Castle next to the YMCA very well from my childhood. I miss it! And I remember going to the Normal to see movies. The last movies I remember seeing there were:
– Cornbread, Earl & Me
– It’s Alive (it scared me to death!!)
– Adios Amigos
(the last 2 movies were a double feature)
Hi John! Thanks for your response. Yes I drove down Michigan a lot when I was home! I live outside of Los Angeles right now (where I am completing pediatrics residency) and can’t get good Chinese food out here, so one of my favorite haunts when I go home is The New Tea Garden restaurant which is across the street from the Roseland Theater. I last visited on Saturday night (10/7/06) at about 10:20 pm just before closing.
I hadn’t heard about proposed closing of Fenger – I will ask my mom about it as she works for CPS in the office of high school programs. That would be horrible to close it, and a sad reason to do so.
In actuality, my experience is that white people have an easier time walking through economically depressed neighborhoods. So many shootings that occur are mistaken identity (usually African- and Latino-Americans victims) in such neighborhoods. I have been followed by police when driving during the day in neighborhoods such as Beverly, the Kenwood area and Oak Park (I go there at times to look at homes for sale) – I haven’t been driving a beat up car, I am not blasting music, I am not harassing residents, and I am only 5 feet tall so I can’t look that menacing. When the white Mormon teens visit Roseland doing missionary work, they move through the neighborhood freely and no one bothers them. I am not saying that is true all the time, because of course I don’t have stats on that, but it is sad when ANY person can’t walk the streets safely. I was very young, but I remember African-American children being chased and being beaten up by white children who attended Pullman school back in the early-mid 70s. It wasn’t right then, and it isn’t right for ANYONE to be unsafe in any neighborhood.
And BTW, I do walk down the streets of Roseland during the day and night, and thankfully I have been safe. I am looking to return to Roseland to practice pediatrics after I am done with residency so that I can do my part to help uplift the community by doing outreach at schools, local youth organizations, etc.
I welcome continued dialog with you, John. Maybe I can help you understand current Roseland residents, and maybe you can share your experiences in Roseland when you were younger. Take care :–)
Wow – John Stitnizky seems to have a low opinion of the Roseland residents of today! Maybe I am just misreading his posts, particulary the one about Roseland residents living like animals and not likely living until they grow up (I hope I am misreading the post!). Bad people can be products of any neighborhood, race, culture, religion, etc., and the same holds true for good people. Roseland has produced doctors, computer tech whizzes, CPAs, educators (all from my immediate family I might add), as well as attorneys, nurses, corporate types, police officers, etc, etc – not just people who are economically and socially depressed.
My family moved to Roseland in 1974 after buying the home from a family named Panozzo; our home is on South King Drive (formerly South Park Drive). We still own our home today. I would love it if anyone had old photos of my street, or of the neighborhood in general, that can be shared.
FYI – I was just home. Roseland Theater bldg has been revamped and will be offices, not a strip mall (unless plans change).
Natalie Santiago, MD – I managed to grow up quite nicely :–)