Well, sure it’s on-topic. The post is about avoiding inflammatory comments; we’re considering what causes these issues and brainstorming and discussing the merits of ways to avoid these situations in the future. A healthy, constructive, disscussion without personal attacks- exactly what this community needs more of! And the veering off-topic serves as an illustration of why another type of forum could be useful- keep the main thread of conversation on-topic while allowing more dialogue to spin off.
Well-put, schmadrian. What if the discussion board were a paid-member area of the site? It would give members both an incentive to financially support the site and provide a forum for greater discussion which is mainly of interest to more dedicated members anyway. I think that http://www.straightdope.com/ has an arrangement along those lines. I think the wiki idea has some merit too, but it seems like implementation could be tricky.
Such an interface would also allow members to privately message each other, regardless of whether their email is listed in their profiles. This would also keep a lot of irrelevance off the listings. However, I suppose bandwidth is an important consideration. But there does need to be some expansion of discussion forums. For example, it doesn’t seem to make much sense to have discussion of operators like Cineplex Odeon or Balaban & Katz or Loews spread out across dozens of different listings. Maybe even a wiki of some sort would be a useful edition.
It would be nice if the site had a forum to discuss more general topics, so that we had somewhere to talk about things not related to one specific thing. Sure, other theater sites that, but they are largely different communities for whatever reason.
Not that it’s relevant, but I never suggested where he might have gotten the money – I have no idea, and I don’t really care either. I know that he’s spent a lot of time playing the organ. I suppose you’d similarly indict a pianist for buying a Steinway or a violinist for a Stradivari, or any musician for buying a top-of-the-line sound system? And bringing Hitler into the argument (Godwin’s law) immediately strips you of any credibility you might have held. I never claimed to be non-judgemental, I was just shocked that such a rude comment would pop up here. No trace of arrogance? You opened your post by saying it was self-indulgence! The arrogance is in saying what someone you don’t even know or know anything about should be spending their money. The only person who has any business saying how Mark Noller should spend his money is Mark Noller. In one sentence you say I should be less self-righteous, in the next you – having never met or talked to me – state authoritatively that I have been corrupted by consumerism and tell me exactly what I need to do.
If you’re here to indict Western society, you’re in the wrong place. You asked if “a cinema could be saved” – well, why spend the money restoring a theater when there are homeless people? A black shoebox would do just as well, and old theaters certainly aren’t as economically efficient as a multiplex. Wasn’t that one of the reasons modernists hated ornamentation, that it was ostenatious and wasteful? Then again, communist societies- ones where any measure of material self-indulgence are rendered illegal – are such great places to live!
I won’t indulge you any further in this discussion. How’s the weather up there?
Well, sir, I think you have a lot of nerve to pass judgement on someone. From the article you can see this is a man who lives humbly, doing what he loves – playing the organ. How many people buy cars to reward themselves for a life of hard work? For 50k you could get, what, a nice sedan, or a Hummer H2, or something like that. For 50k you could move to something a little larger than a double-wide. But this guy decided to do something creative and enjoy what he has and what he loves doing. My opinion is weak and inconsequential? Well, at least it’s not rooted in arrogant self-righteousness.
A November 12, 1919 Mae Tinee article in the Tribune stated: “Balaban and Katz’s downtown theater will be called The Capitol, for the readon that it is to be the largest if any of their theaters and will be their executive headquarters. This theater is to be located on the east side of State street between Lake and Randolph streets. Building operations will begin early in the spring when the existing leases expire.” A July 4, 1920 ad for bonds shows a drawing of the Chicago with the name Ambassador, which persisted until at least December. In April, 1920, the Harris and Selwyn were announced (as Rapp & Rapp designs which weren’t built, but still with the near-twin theme). At the time, they were to be called the Chicago and Selwyn. By January 1921 they had recieved the Harris and Selwyn names, freeing the Chicago name.
Here is an early interior view of the Majestic Bar, which is the space that was recently incorporated into the lobby as a lounge and box office. All of it is gone now except the ceiling, but it seems that nobody realized even that was there until the restoration started.
Another sad irony is that the Gateway Plaza development there was supposed to contain multiplexes in two different iterations of the plan, but both fell through, leaving the Far North Side with only the Village North.
A corbis caption claims: “Photo shows the old Academy of Music, 16 South Halsted street, which was the first theater in the world to be lighted electrically, causing temporary chaos among the actors, who refused to go on, behind the bright footlights, not being properly "made up' properly.” It was built in 1878 and Oscar Cobb was architect. Originally held 2,450 seats.
The article is essentially factually correct, except that the City Council did, in fact, commit the funds to a feasibility study that was never carried out, on the grounds that it could benefit the owner, a private businessman. Meanwhile, the land behind the theater was redeveloped, on land bought by the city and sold under market value to the developer, while the city itself passed up the opportunity to purchase the theater. As a result of this development, the theater – as the Tribune noted – now is worth three times as much. There’s a good chance the city will eventually decide to redevelop that stretch, with or without the theater, and Bhagwakar will get the difference in value, so the city effectively will be benefitting him anyway. Smart businessman. Due to this and other differences in philosophy, the society has been unable to continue presenting shows at the theater, and is exploring other ways to continue fighting for this important landmark. Feel free to contact me if you wish to learn more, and visit the Society website at http://www.dptheatre.org/
I’ll explain my reasoning for why I think Betts & Holcomb had a relationship to this building. First, as the article I typed below notes, B&H and Mann had adjacent offices in one building and then moved together to another. They obviously must have been very close aquaintances. It’s very unusual to see Tudor-style theaters, yet the Chicago area had 5 – The Glen Ellyn, the Catlow (Barrington), the Villard (Villa Park), the Deerpath (Lake Forest), and the Alcyon. B&H designed the first 3, and are usually attributed as the designers of the Deerpath, although sometimes it is attributed to Stanley D. Anderson, a prominent Lake Forest architect who did parts of the nearby tudor-style Market Square shopping center. However, if you compare the Catlow to pictures of the Deerpath, many of the design features are exactly the same. It is therefore quite likely that Betts & Holcomb designed the theater entirely and Anderson was listed as the architect of record due to his local connections; or Anderson may have worked with B&H and been credited as its architect. I think a similar situation might have happened with Mann, who had a much clearer connection to B&H. Like Anderson, Mann had local connections as a Highland Park architect. And like Anderson, Mann had not designed a theater previously. Surely there was influence from the architects next door who had designed 5 similar theaters. Also the present owner of the theater said B&H were the architects. That said, the Alcyon is different in a number of ways from the other B&H theaters i’ve seen (Des Plaines, Catlow, Deerpath).
Chicago Tribune, April 25, 1926
“NEWS OF THE ARCHITECTS
The group of architects who for several years have maintained studios on the roof of the Ashland block [note: Now site of the Daley Center] in a sort of enlarged bungalow hooked up with the 16th floor by a mointain climbing circular iron stairway, have all decided to trek to more convenient quarters elsewhere in the loop.
Olsen & Urbain will move on May 1 to suite 2128 in the new Metropolitan block. Their phone will remain the same. Raymond Gregori also will move to the Metropolitan.
Betts & Holcomb will journey eastward along Randolph to the new Masonic temple [Oriental Theater Building], now nearing completion at the site of the old Iroquois (Colonial) theater. They will occupy suite 1809 [note: Now County Offices]. What their phone number will be remains a mystery as yet unsolved. William D. Mann also will move from the Ashland to the new Masonic temple.”
Well, sure it’s on-topic. The post is about avoiding inflammatory comments; we’re considering what causes these issues and brainstorming and discussing the merits of ways to avoid these situations in the future. A healthy, constructive, disscussion without personal attacks- exactly what this community needs more of! And the veering off-topic serves as an illustration of why another type of forum could be useful- keep the main thread of conversation on-topic while allowing more dialogue to spin off.
Well-put, schmadrian. What if the discussion board were a paid-member area of the site? It would give members both an incentive to financially support the site and provide a forum for greater discussion which is mainly of interest to more dedicated members anyway. I think that http://www.straightdope.com/ has an arrangement along those lines. I think the wiki idea has some merit too, but it seems like implementation could be tricky.
Such an interface would also allow members to privately message each other, regardless of whether their email is listed in their profiles. This would also keep a lot of irrelevance off the listings. However, I suppose bandwidth is an important consideration. But there does need to be some expansion of discussion forums. For example, it doesn’t seem to make much sense to have discussion of operators like Cineplex Odeon or Balaban & Katz or Loews spread out across dozens of different listings. Maybe even a wiki of some sort would be a useful edition.
It would be nice if the site had a forum to discuss more general topics, so that we had somewhere to talk about things not related to one specific thing. Sure, other theater sites that, but they are largely different communities for whatever reason.
Fantastic! Dates to 1957, judging by the marquees
The book Here’s The Deal covers Block 37 in detail
THis ebay stores item features a fantastic photo of the Will Rogers on opening day, complete with movie camera and a ladder to the marquee.
Not that it’s relevant, but I never suggested where he might have gotten the money – I have no idea, and I don’t really care either. I know that he’s spent a lot of time playing the organ. I suppose you’d similarly indict a pianist for buying a Steinway or a violinist for a Stradivari, or any musician for buying a top-of-the-line sound system? And bringing Hitler into the argument (Godwin’s law) immediately strips you of any credibility you might have held. I never claimed to be non-judgemental, I was just shocked that such a rude comment would pop up here. No trace of arrogance? You opened your post by saying it was self-indulgence! The arrogance is in saying what someone you don’t even know or know anything about should be spending their money. The only person who has any business saying how Mark Noller should spend his money is Mark Noller. In one sentence you say I should be less self-righteous, in the next you – having never met or talked to me – state authoritatively that I have been corrupted by consumerism and tell me exactly what I need to do.
If you’re here to indict Western society, you’re in the wrong place. You asked if “a cinema could be saved” – well, why spend the money restoring a theater when there are homeless people? A black shoebox would do just as well, and old theaters certainly aren’t as economically efficient as a multiplex. Wasn’t that one of the reasons modernists hated ornamentation, that it was ostenatious and wasteful? Then again, communist societies- ones where any measure of material self-indulgence are rendered illegal – are such great places to live!
I won’t indulge you any further in this discussion. How’s the weather up there?
Well, sir, I think you have a lot of nerve to pass judgement on someone. From the article you can see this is a man who lives humbly, doing what he loves – playing the organ. How many people buy cars to reward themselves for a life of hard work? For 50k you could get, what, a nice sedan, or a Hummer H2, or something like that. For 50k you could move to something a little larger than a double-wide. But this guy decided to do something creative and enjoy what he has and what he loves doing. My opinion is weak and inconsequential? Well, at least it’s not rooted in arrogant self-righteousness.
Far greater sums have been spent on far more self-indulgent projects. It should make things interesting when it comes time to sell the house though.
A November 12, 1919 Mae Tinee article in the Tribune stated: “Balaban and Katz’s downtown theater will be called The Capitol, for the readon that it is to be the largest if any of their theaters and will be their executive headquarters. This theater is to be located on the east side of State street between Lake and Randolph streets. Building operations will begin early in the spring when the existing leases expire.” A July 4, 1920 ad for bonds shows a drawing of the Chicago with the name Ambassador, which persisted until at least December. In April, 1920, the Harris and Selwyn were announced (as Rapp & Rapp designs which weren’t built, but still with the near-twin theme). At the time, they were to be called the Chicago and Selwyn. By January 1921 they had recieved the Harris and Selwyn names, freeing the Chicago name.
Yes, it does. Hope it comes through.
Here is a late 40s view. Here is an early 60s view.
Here is an early postcard view
Here is a postcard view of the lobby
Here is a 1950s view of the glitzy Randolph Street Rialto.
Here is an early interior view of the Majestic Bar, which is the space that was recently incorporated into the lobby as a lounge and box office. All of it is gone now except the ceiling, but it seems that nobody realized even that was there until the restoration started.
Here is an early postcard view of the theater
Here is an early postcard view of the New United Masonic Temple Building/Oriental Theater
Another sad irony is that the Gateway Plaza development there was supposed to contain multiplexes in two different iterations of the plan, but both fell through, leaving the Far North Side with only the Village North.
A corbis caption claims: “Photo shows the old Academy of Music, 16 South Halsted street, which was the first theater in the world to be lighted electrically, causing temporary chaos among the actors, who refused to go on, behind the bright footlights, not being properly "made up' properly.” It was built in 1878 and Oscar Cobb was architect. Originally held 2,450 seats.
Here is the library of congress' file on the building including pictures. Too bad about the stage.
The article is essentially factually correct, except that the City Council did, in fact, commit the funds to a feasibility study that was never carried out, on the grounds that it could benefit the owner, a private businessman. Meanwhile, the land behind the theater was redeveloped, on land bought by the city and sold under market value to the developer, while the city itself passed up the opportunity to purchase the theater. As a result of this development, the theater – as the Tribune noted – now is worth three times as much. There’s a good chance the city will eventually decide to redevelop that stretch, with or without the theater, and Bhagwakar will get the difference in value, so the city effectively will be benefitting him anyway. Smart businessman. Due to this and other differences in philosophy, the society has been unable to continue presenting shows at the theater, and is exploring other ways to continue fighting for this important landmark. Feel free to contact me if you wish to learn more, and visit the Society website at http://www.dptheatre.org/
Do you think the Patio and Portage could coexist, though? They are far apart, but far enough?
I’ll explain my reasoning for why I think Betts & Holcomb had a relationship to this building. First, as the article I typed below notes, B&H and Mann had adjacent offices in one building and then moved together to another. They obviously must have been very close aquaintances. It’s very unusual to see Tudor-style theaters, yet the Chicago area had 5 – The Glen Ellyn, the Catlow (Barrington), the Villard (Villa Park), the Deerpath (Lake Forest), and the Alcyon. B&H designed the first 3, and are usually attributed as the designers of the Deerpath, although sometimes it is attributed to Stanley D. Anderson, a prominent Lake Forest architect who did parts of the nearby tudor-style Market Square shopping center. However, if you compare the Catlow to pictures of the Deerpath, many of the design features are exactly the same. It is therefore quite likely that Betts & Holcomb designed the theater entirely and Anderson was listed as the architect of record due to his local connections; or Anderson may have worked with B&H and been credited as its architect. I think a similar situation might have happened with Mann, who had a much clearer connection to B&H. Like Anderson, Mann had local connections as a Highland Park architect. And like Anderson, Mann had not designed a theater previously. Surely there was influence from the architects next door who had designed 5 similar theaters. Also the present owner of the theater said B&H were the architects. That said, the Alcyon is different in a number of ways from the other B&H theaters i’ve seen (Des Plaines, Catlow, Deerpath).
Chicago Tribune, April 25, 1926
“NEWS OF THE ARCHITECTS
The group of architects who for several years have maintained studios on the roof of the Ashland block [note: Now site of the Daley Center] in a sort of enlarged bungalow hooked up with the 16th floor by a mointain climbing circular iron stairway, have all decided to trek to more convenient quarters elsewhere in the loop.
Olsen & Urbain will move on May 1 to suite 2128 in the new Metropolitan block. Their phone will remain the same. Raymond Gregori also will move to the Metropolitan.
Betts & Holcomb will journey eastward along Randolph to the new Masonic temple [Oriental Theater Building], now nearing completion at the site of the old Iroquois (Colonial) theater. They will occupy suite 1809 [note: Now County Offices]. What their phone number will be remains a mystery as yet unsolved. William D. Mann also will move from the Ashland to the new Masonic temple.”