Criterion Theatre

1514 Broadway,
New York, NY 10036

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bigjoe59
bigjoe59 on July 31, 2019 at 5:57 pm

Hello-

i have asked this question in the past to which i wonder
if my fellow posters have any additional info. i refer to Sept. 1952-Dec. 1972 as the prime roadshow period. now i didn’t go to every roadshow film in this time period but every one i did go to had a souvenir program for sale in the lobby. therefore does anyone know of a roadshow engagement in this period that did not have a souvenir program?

bigjoe59
bigjoe59 on July 28, 2019 at 1:53 pm

Hello-

to Mike (saps) on your 7/16/19 comment on Hello Dolly. as I have said for me Streisand was Dolly Levi. so might I ask what exactly you mean by the film being “overproduced”? the sumptuous physical production is one reason I am fond of the film.

PeterApruzzese
PeterApruzzese on July 26, 2019 at 6:46 pm

bigjoe – the faded print the article references is the roadshow version.

vindanpar – The SP Blu-ray is reasonably clear in describing it contains two versions and it does not claim to have “restored the roadshow version”:

The 157 minute “theatrical version” (should probably have said “general release version”, but “theatrical” is also accurate since the GR version is the one most people saw theatrically).

The 172 minute “roadshow version” (in the text Special Features listing they say “extended road show version” but they obviously meant “extended from the 157 minute version”). The grid below correctly states “172 minutes (Roadshow version)”

Nowhere on the package (at least the one I have from 2008) does it state anything that should make you say this: “Fox makes you think you are getting”.

If you want to more about Blu-ray’s, you might want to join us at the HomeTheaterForum.com

bigjoe59
bigjoe59 on July 26, 2019 at 4:56 pm

Hello Again-

its to bad no complete copy of the roadshow version of South Pacific exists whether it be a camera negative or a print of the film. when the 4hr premiere roadshow version of Cleopatra was cut down to 3hrs. 15mins. for its run at neighborhood theaters around NYC not only were the 45mins. of trims saved but in damn good condition. the original 4hr. roadshow version is the one on the A++ Blu-ray disc. its to bad the 15?mins. trimmed from South Pacific weren’t kept. I can’t believe there’s no complete roadshow print of SP anyway in the world.

vindanpar
vindanpar on July 26, 2019 at 4:52 pm

Sorry about the 245 minutes. I meant 2hours and 45 minutes but as noted it is exactly 2 hours and 52 minutes.

Still the article raises more questions than it answers and the most recent bluray is highly deceptive. I haven’t opened it yet but from the outside it is unclear as to what you are getting. They say ‘Theatrical Version.’ What’s that exactly? Oh it’s the second run general release cut version (which was cut probably for commercial reasons as in getting in more performances per day than sensitive subject matter.) But they don’t say that. Second disc is Extended Road Show version. Well isn’t that a Theatrical Version as well? And did they extend the road show version? You mean it’s more than 172 minutes?

Sorry this release is sloppy and that In 70mm article is a mess. “We created a new interpositive from the original negative,” Original negative? Does that mean the complete Todd AO version? Samples from the Danish road show version that ran 4 years? Where’s the rest of it? But they found a print in an archive in England? What happened to those Todd AO reels I saw delivered in the lobby of the Warner Cinerama? Did they end up in England? Fox treated its legacy very badly.

South Pacific deserved a complete restoration of the entire roadshow film which Fox makes you think you are getting. If I had looked closer I would have realized they were pulling a fast one and not have purchased it.

Mike (saps)
Mike (saps) on July 26, 2019 at 12:08 am

And we have a winner…!

PeterApruzzese
PeterApruzzese on July 25, 2019 at 10:19 pm

There is no such thing as a “245 minute version” of South Pacific.

The main feature on the South Pacific Blu-ray is the Fox FotoKem restoration of the general release version, running 2:37, from the original 65mm ToddAO elements as discussed in your link. It looks incredible on the disc, one of the half-dozen best that I have. The ‘roadshow version’ runs 2:52 and is presented as a bonus feature; to reconstruct it, they took the master of the restored general release version and cut in the missing scenes from that faded print mentioned in the article. Some of the reconstructed scenes look good, others less so.

vindanpar
vindanpar on July 25, 2019 at 9:14 pm

OK talk about confusing. So what happened to this?

https://www.in70mm.com/news/2006/south_pacific/index.htm

vindanpar
vindanpar on July 25, 2019 at 4:57 pm

And did Fox get the Magna production film elements? Because if they did that would be a disaster. And considering their tragic handling of their film legacy it explains why there hasn’t been a stateside Todd AO restoration. The original elements are probably under some southern California freeway. Did Oklahoma survive because Goldwyn productions got their hands on it?

vindanpar
vindanpar on July 25, 2019 at 4:31 pm

I haven’t seen the recent SP bluray but is the general release print a restoration and from what? It would have been in 35mm. So would it have been restored from a 35mm print? And what about the second disc? What exactly is it? The general release print inserting poor dupes of the missing 15 minutes? Wow is this confusing.

I wish I could find the article about the restoration of a complete 245 minute Todd AO print in Denmark. I fell down a 70mm article rabbit hole and came across it. Now of course I can’t find it. The article was about somewhere from 2010-2012. There was no discussion of any dvd that I can recall. It was just on film. Does this mean that the original elements were tossed so that in the US no restoration was attempted of the Todd AO production? This is amazing considering what was done with Oklahoma and South Pacific was a much bigger international hit with maybe the roadshow long run record of all time.

bigjoe59
bigjoe59 on July 24, 2019 at 2:50 pm

Hello-

to Al A.– thanks for your reply. I saw GMC during its roadshow rum at the RKO Palace, PYW during its roadshow run at the Loews State 1&2. I only saw Cleopatra and TFOTRE at neighborhood theaters. I would have especially liked to have seen Cleopatra during its roadshow run at the Rivoli on its huge curved Toad-AO screen.

to vindanpar- the currently available Blu-ray disc set of South Pacific contains both the general release print which is the one most people know and the original roadshow version. but the roadshow version is a reconstruction not a restoration. the roadshow version was reconstructed by inserting the eliminated 15? mins. using b&w-ish sepia footage from I guess a work print. to which my question- are you saying the Blu-ray disc available in Denmark was a full complete original roadshow version and not the “reconstructed” one available in the U.S.?

PeterApruzzese
PeterApruzzese on July 23, 2019 at 2:22 pm

Ice Station Zebra was shot in SuperPanavision 65mm for presentation in Cinerama. The current HD release reflects the full 2.20:1 aspect ratio – the Cinerama theatrical version would most likely have been cropped on the top and bottom.

vindanpar
vindanpar on July 23, 2019 at 8:17 am

I’d give anything to see Fall of the Roman Empire in a theater. I managed to see Barabbas in one which I never thought would happen. A wonderful but very bleak film. I imagine it did not do well on roadshow and very few people seem to remember it.

vindanpar
vindanpar on July 23, 2019 at 8:05 am

I wonder if ISZ could be restored to its Cinerama dimensions. I saw it in the suburbs as a boy.

Al Alvarez
Al Alvarez on July 23, 2019 at 7:53 am

No Vindanpar, I never saw Todd AO and I think the travelogue novelty on the big screen was better suited for the 1950’s. I found the fake sets in “SOUTH PACIFIC” impossible to imagine being anywhere except inside a theatre. “ICE STATION ZEBRA” also loses its charm on TV.

vindanpar
vindanpar on July 23, 2019 at 7:41 am

Have you seen 80 Days and South Pacific in Todd AO? I’ve tried watching the former on TV and found it unwatchable. I imagine on a large Todd AO screen it might be a different animal. Interesting that no restoration of this film has ever been attempted but there doesn’t seem to be much interest. Maybe none of the original elements exist. It seems nobody ever even asked Liz Taylor about it.

South Pacific on the screen in Todd AO at the Warner Cinerama had me enjoying it a lot more than I ever had and the 6 track sound was great. The opening notes of Bali Hai had me pinned to the back of the theater. As I’ve noted the new blu rau DVD restoration is 15 minutes short. The second disc is complete but not restored. But the restoration in Denmark years ago was complete. I guess the people who did the new DVD don’t know there’s a thing called Google.

Al Alvarez
Al Alvarez on July 22, 2019 at 5:27 pm

I liked “GOODBYE, MR. CHIPS”, “PAINT YOUR WAGON”, “CLEOPATRA”, “THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE”, “ICE STATION ZEBRA” and “PORGY AND BESS”. All have been trashed over the years. I disliked “AROUND THE WORLD IN 80 DAYS”, “SOUTH PACIFIC”, and “LAWRENCE OF ARABIA”, all classics today. I found the latter beautiful to watch and about an hour too long.

bigjoe59
bigjoe59 on July 22, 2019 at 4:44 pm

Hello-

to Al. A- in our continuing discussion about roadshow films I have a question for you. of the number of roadshow films with as i put it “a somewhat off reputation” is there one you liked/enjoyed quite a bit and think is a damn good film?

Mike (saps)
Mike (saps) on July 19, 2019 at 7:06 pm

Per Wikipedia: “Paint Your Wagon” became Paramount’s sixth largest success up to that point (and the sixth highest-grossing film of 1969) when it earned $31.6 million over its release, although the earnings never offset the cost of production and marketing.

vindanpar
vindanpar on July 19, 2019 at 6:34 pm

NYer If Lerner and Loewe, Andre Previn, Nelson Riddle and Joshua Logan considered it singing who are you or I to say it wasn’t?

Al Alvarez
Al Alvarez on July 19, 2019 at 5:00 pm

There is no answer to that, bigjoe. If the boxoffice pre-sales were weak the studio would start planning the wide release immediately but run the roadshow for snob appeal prestige. “MARAT/DESADE” and “FAR FROM THE MADDING CROWD” would be examples. In the case of “STAR!” they were just tried to salvage whatever income they could get with the edited version entitled “THOSE WERE THE HAPPY TIMES”.

bigjoe59
bigjoe59 on July 19, 2019 at 4:30 pm

Hello-

to Al A.– in our continuing lively discussion about roadshow films a question. would you know what the minimum number of weeks a roadshow engagement had to run to be considered a success? I’m guessing part of the equation was much the film cost to make.

Al Alvarez
Al Alvarez on July 18, 2019 at 10:23 pm

bigjoe, nobody makes a movie to break even.

bigjoe59
bigjoe59 on July 18, 2019 at 6:09 pm

Hello Again-

we’re having an interesting discussion aren’t we? I was just trying to make the point that a number of people who refer to certain roadshow films as “bombs” probably have never thru them and are just reiterating the long held off reputation. also The Wizard of Oz and Vertigo may have eventually broke even but what people fail to mention is that in their original 1st run engagements they were considered flops.

vindanpar
vindanpar on July 18, 2019 at 6:35 am

Any film containing Lee Marvin singing Wanderin Star is a success in my heart.