zappomatic: Never been to the Empire Casino, not having any interest in gambling nor drinking!
There are lots of “360 degree” photos of the Empire Casino on Google Maps—it seems the Icon Bar is accessed from the corridor from the main entrance and is not integrated with the main casino area?
theatreofvarieties: Many thanks for your reply! Most interesting regarding the sintered glass tiles. I assume these were then painted the same colour?
Having tried to research 1960s tiles, I can find no likely products that could have been the original tiles, given that they were apparently “plaster tiles in a mink and gold colour scheme” (from the 1962 Gala Opening Programme.)
I’ve long been puzzled by the “bump profile” tiles in their various patterned arrangements, which seemingly look like they were intended for acoustic control, but are too small to do anything.
Looking at the coefficients for sintered glass tiles, they do seem to be effective at mid/high frequency absorption. I still found the 2006 THX system had dialogue intelligibility issues, although otherwise it was one of the very best sounding systems I’ve heard.
There are some aspects of the 1960s reconstruction that I am curious about. I suspect the “grand foyer” must be higher in level than where the original “tea room” was. It seems that the original circle was shortened also, as including the rows of “loge seats” at the front, the original went past the “kink” in the right wall—approximately, I think, where the dividing wall between IMAX/IMPACT auditoria is. Case study blurb from the contractors and consultants involved mentions weight limitations of the concrete slab floor, so I’m guessing this part of the original circle was removed.
Where is the remaining piece of 1927 wallpaper located behind the right wall? Must be near the first (from the rear) vertical “cove”?
On the coloured lighting—I can see what you mean by “1980s disco”—although I rather like all things 1980s—at least other than bad hairstyles and ripped jeans! Although the “uplighting” at the bottom of the screen could be a different colour?
P.S. I can’t remember if I’ve posted the link before, but there was an article in Light + Sound International magazine on the 1980s Equisse Design refurb (on p19.)
Good to hear that the IMAX screen is doing well, although thanks for the heads up—early screening it will be for me!
I have no idea how any “extension” into the Casino (“Icon” bar) could work, particularly in view of the comment by theatreofvarieties, and Cineworld will surely want to funnel customers via the concessions stand en route to the main auditoria. That really leaves at the top of the entrance stairs.
Better arrangement would be to remove Screen 4…
I am uneasy about changes to the foyer—I will not be happy if the essentials of the 1960s design are lost!
Notably: “Some 2,000 square metres of Glasroc F MULTIBOARD was also used for the interior curved walls, which were designed around a giant curved screen, at 21m high, taller than four double-decker buses.”
Glasroc F is “Non-combustible glass-reinforced gypsum plasterboard”—IOW, high-performance—and expensive—stuff!
theatreofvarieties: Just spotted your IMAX conversion photo uploads; thank you so much for this!
(Not that I “like” seeing the work done to “Screen 1,” as it were; but to me, it’s extremely interesting—e.g. the “ribbed” ceiling steelwork.)
Wonder why the coloured concealed lighting operates monochromatically on “one circuit,” when from your photos it appears that it doesn’t have to? (I complained about this after the first public screening, and was informed that “we can programme the lights to do whatever we want.”)
The tiles seemed to be one set stuck on top of another? A little confused by your photo showing the CIC/UCI paint? Do any remain hidden behind new “false” walls (possibly on the left side of the “stalls”?) or were they all stripped?
Auditorium looks good, looks like a “redecoration” (i.e. the wall coverings/carpets/seating.)
Looks like the main tabs have been kept, although they’re open in that photo.
A comment on the first page linked notes that the seats aren’t staggered, resulting in sightline problems.
The second foyer photo (featuring “Square Pie”) looks absolutely hideous and is completely inappropriate IMO for a cinema, as well as being substandard for a premiere site. The hanging lights aren’t even of the same length!
Not too keen on the facade either but better than the mess that it had become and the quality of the finishes look to be of a suitably high standard.
The “heritage” aspect only requires elements such as the ceiling to be kept and the overall form respected, as has been the case with previous refurbishments. It still allows scope for their “house” style/branding to be imposed.
If they take over the Icon bar, then depending on the scope for chopping and change the internals, they could reconfigure by moving the vestibule staircase forward so that the bar integrates with the rest of the foyer area. I would hope for something special but if a major reconfiguration occurs then I suspect none of the 1960s “heritage” elements will be left. :–(
theatreofvarieties: Good news! They had better respect the heritage of the foyer though (and, IMO, keep the fibre optic “starfield” lights from the late 1980s refurb.)
(N.B. The Icon bar extends onto the balcony on the LSQ frontage. Therefore, it is on the same level as cinema’s foyer, adjacent to the starcase leading to screens 7-9.)
Correction to my previous post on the planning permission timeframe for the replacement roof: The respective building control entry on Westminster Council’s website notes that this has been completed. Having a look at Google Earth (i.e. the full-featured PC software rather than http://maps.google.com/) and comparing to “historical imagery,” the clearly “patched” appearance is no longer there, and so this would appear to be the case.
FanaticalAboutOdeon: A comprehensive conversion could of course not be justified in all cases, but at the same time, too many were clearly very inexpensive and were also ill-thought out.
I cannot see any purpose in the rear “corridor” seats, other than to frustrate those patrons with no other seating option given a full house, nor the two rear surround speakers on the “corridor” sidewalls.
(Maybe I am rather naive about the “purpose” of the rear seats, as this could be ideal for those wishing to engage in activities other than watching the feature?!)
This is perhaps an extreme example, but there were too many which ended up with odd seating arrangements, off-centre projection and screens angled away from the seating.
Combined with poor quality interiors the overall impression was of a “fleapit.”
More recently, many of those less than ideal conversions which still exist have, at least, been refurbished to at least provide reasonable interiors.
An application to Westminster Building Control has been submitted in relation to the “Empire Casino,” dated 2nd March 2017, for a “full refurbishment to all floors;” of potential relevance here, “including… first floor balcony works.”
External alterations may require a planning application, so we shall see…
rasLXR—Indeed white is not ideal but I’m not sure how this could be changed without seriously compromising the design? “Low reflectivity” specialist paint in a slightly off-white colour? Thinking about it, the splay walls should really all covered in white stretched fabric over acoustic absorption…
Regarding black, many “black box” auditoria with wall-to-wall screens fail in my view as one always feels as though one is in a cinema watching a screen hemmed in by the side walls and ceiling, instead of a “view into” another world.
FanaticalAboutOdeon—I agree with your comments on the “streamline moderne” Odeons. That “house style” is, to this day, respected and iconic for good reason.
My personal opinion on “ornate” fibrous plaster modellings is a very negative one indeed!
I will add, though, that many of the Odeons were subject to very poor subdivisions, and particularly those later under the control of the likes Coronet were subject to very poor maintenance, with auditoriums badly repainted, etc.
Mike Blakemore: As I’ve mentioned on this site before, my Father was an architect (Project Architect on numerous multi-million pound commercial buildings including in the entertainment/leisure sector) and, at a distance, just who in a practice was responsible for what is frequently unclear.
The RIBA published a book on a practice he had worked for—he had been involved with the design of one of the buildings therein but his name was misspelt (!) and his colleague with whom he had worked on the project was not mentioned. There were numerous other errors, too.
There are many other factors but suffice to say, whilst “house styles” of cinema chains and architectural practices are sometimes evident, I would be cautious over trying to assign credit. I suspect your complex history is in reality somewhat more involved!
moviebuff82—Regarding increased security, I attended a preview screening at VUE Westfield London (Shepherd’s Bush) yesterday and they were doing bag checks.
Of course this is “security theatre” not least since there is no such screening in the foyer nor for the mall’s very large atrium area adjacent… etc.
It seems that VUE Westfield London do have infra-red CCTV in the auditoria with live videos of such being fairly prominently displayed at the corridor entrance leading to the auditoria.
The planning permission for the replacement roof over the OLS was granted on 1 October 2014 and work must commence within 3 years of this decision or Odeon will need to go through the applications process again.
Whilst this is a “rubber stamp” matter, no subsequent planning application is shown on Westminster’s planning applications database.
If the refurbishment is to be started this year, then it seems likely that it will happen before October.
From the Variety article: ““It’s impossible to think anyone would object to what we have planned for Odeon Leicester Square,” Aron said, adding that the upgrades would improve the site while retaining its character.”
Hmm, “impossible to think anyone would object”—maybe I’m being paranoid, but that sounds slightly omninous!
The Empire conversion and VUE West End refurb came in at around the £5m mark, so £10-15m sounds very extensive.
The large IMAX screen was only possible in the Empire by a hair’s (or roof truss'!) breadth.
I imagine there is some scope for increasing the screen size within the existing proscenium provided the rear stalls are removed—possibly in part for the additional toilets mentioned in the Variety article?!
FantaticalAboutOdeon—Re. reclining seats at the Empire—the same type of seats are installed in the “IMPACT” screen and they do recline. I don’t think there’s enough space in the IMAX screen because it’s using the original 1928 circle steppings.
As for the “iSense” brand—the OLS already is “iSense”… if you sit towards the front!
“A £6.6 million investment will see Vue’s West End venue […] offer guests the choice of fully reclining leather seats […] all other seats will be ‘VIP’ and have been designed to be super spacious, with extra room to stretch out and relax. […] There will be a total of 1,385 VIP and luxurious reclining seats. […]
“*Dolby Atmos installed in two screens […] all screens will also benefit from […] Sony 4K digital projection.
“retail offer with two new hot food concessions – Square Pie and Pizzeria Maletti – as well as a complete redesign of the foyer and existing bar area. A 62.7m² digital screen will also be installed on the exterior of the building.”
The Licensing Application is up on Westminster Council’s website, no. 17/00626/LIPVM.
From it, here are the new seat counts:
Auditorium 1 68 standard / 22 VIP / 9 Luxury/ 99 Total / 1 Accessible Auditorium 2 57 standard / 12 VIP / 10 Luxury / 79 Total / 1 Accessible Auditorium 3 121 standard / 24 VIP / 10 Luxury / 155 Total / 2 Accessible Auditorium 4 121 standard / 24 VIP / 10 Luxury / 155 Total / 2 Accessible Auditorium 5 229 standard / 48 VIP / 20 Luxury / 297 Total / 4 Accessible Auditorium 6 120 standard / 20 VIP / 10 Luxury / 150 Total / 2 Accessible Auditorium 7 229 standard / 48 VIP / 20 Luxury / 297 Total / 4 Accessible Auditorium 8 89 standard / 26 VIP / 8 Luxury / 123 Total / 2 Accessible Auditorium 9 138 standard / 30 VIP / 9 Luxury / 177 Total / 2 Accessible
All auditoria 1172 standard / 254 VIP / 106 Luxury / 1532 Total / 20 Accessible
Works mentioned in the application include:
-Front box office removed.
-Ground floor concessions counter to be removed and replaced with two counters on the side walls.
-Changes to first floor lounge including new seating and refitted bar.
-Managers' office converted to a ‘Green Room.’
No significant internal changes are shown on the plans, so I would assume the ‘refurb’ of the auditoria will be ‘cosmetic,‘ with the same (or similar) sized screens etc.
UNICK Architects now have a page on the refurbished VUE West End with a number of photos.
zappomatic: Never been to the Empire Casino, not having any interest in gambling nor drinking!
There are lots of “360 degree” photos of the Empire Casino on Google Maps—it seems the Icon Bar is accessed from the corridor from the main entrance and is not integrated with the main casino area?
theatreofvarieties: Many thanks for your reply! Most interesting regarding the sintered glass tiles. I assume these were then painted the same colour?
Having tried to research 1960s tiles, I can find no likely products that could have been the original tiles, given that they were apparently “plaster tiles in a mink and gold colour scheme” (from the 1962 Gala Opening Programme.)
I’ve long been puzzled by the “bump profile” tiles in their various patterned arrangements, which seemingly look like they were intended for acoustic control, but are too small to do anything.
Looking at the coefficients for sintered glass tiles, they do seem to be effective at mid/high frequency absorption. I still found the 2006 THX system had dialogue intelligibility issues, although otherwise it was one of the very best sounding systems I’ve heard.
There are some aspects of the 1960s reconstruction that I am curious about. I suspect the “grand foyer” must be higher in level than where the original “tea room” was. It seems that the original circle was shortened also, as including the rows of “loge seats” at the front, the original went past the “kink” in the right wall—approximately, I think, where the dividing wall between IMAX/IMPACT auditoria is. Case study blurb from the contractors and consultants involved mentions weight limitations of the concrete slab floor, so I’m guessing this part of the original circle was removed.
Where is the remaining piece of 1927 wallpaper located behind the right wall? Must be near the first (from the rear) vertical “cove”?
On the coloured lighting—I can see what you mean by “1980s disco”—although I rather like all things 1980s—at least other than bad hairstyles and ripped jeans! Although the “uplighting” at the bottom of the screen could be a different colour?
P.S. I can’t remember if I’ve posted the link before, but there was an article in Light + Sound International magazine on the 1980s Equisse Design refurb (on p19.)
Here’s a video of the foyer level in 1996—footage from the Mission Impossible UK Premiere from AP’s archives.
Lots of blue and red neon lighting from the late 1980’s makeover!
The marquee is also shown.
UK Mission Impossible Premiere – Empire Leicester Square
(I have linked to the relevant starting position soas to skip over irrelevant footage including screaming Tom Cruise fans outside the Empire!)
The link in goodshow’s post no longer works; however the video can be viewed at:
http://www.macearchive.org/films/atv-today-05071965-nottingham-cinema
Good to hear that the IMAX screen is doing well, although thanks for the heads up—early screening it will be for me!
I have no idea how any “extension” into the Casino (“Icon” bar) could work, particularly in view of the comment by theatreofvarieties, and Cineworld will surely want to funnel customers via the concessions stand en route to the main auditoria. That really leaves at the top of the entrance stairs.
Better arrangement would be to remove Screen 4…
I am uneasy about changes to the foyer—I will not be happy if the essentials of the 1960s design are lost!
British Gypsum case study on the BFI IMAX:
http://www.british-gypsum.com/case-studies/sports-and-leisure/bfi-imax-cinema
Notably: “Some 2,000 square metres of Glasroc F MULTIBOARD was also used for the interior curved walls, which were designed around a giant curved screen, at 21m high, taller than four double-decker buses.”
Glasroc F is “Non-combustible glass-reinforced gypsum plasterboard”—IOW, high-performance—and expensive—stuff!
theatreofvarieties: Just spotted your IMAX conversion photo uploads; thank you so much for this!
(Not that I “like” seeing the work done to “Screen 1,” as it were; but to me, it’s extremely interesting—e.g. the “ribbed” ceiling steelwork.)
Wonder why the coloured concealed lighting operates monochromatically on “one circuit,” when from your photos it appears that it doesn’t have to? (I complained about this after the first public screening, and was informed that “we can programme the lights to do whatever we want.”)
The tiles seemed to be one set stuck on top of another? A little confused by your photo showing the CIC/UCI paint? Do any remain hidden behind new “false” walls (possibly on the left side of the “stalls”?) or were they all stripped?
theatreofvarieties: Thanks for the correction! :–)
Auditorium and facade photos.
Auditorium (same picture) and foyer photos.
Another picture of one of the main auditoriums—towards the screen—picture 10.
Auditorium looks good, looks like a “redecoration” (i.e. the wall coverings/carpets/seating.)
Looks like the main tabs have been kept, although they’re open in that photo.
A comment on the first page linked notes that the seats aren’t staggered, resulting in sightline problems.
The second foyer photo (featuring “Square Pie”) looks absolutely hideous and is completely inappropriate IMO for a cinema, as well as being substandard for a premiere site. The hanging lights aren’t even of the same length!
Not too keen on the facade either but better than the mess that it had become and the quality of the finishes look to be of a suitably high standard.
The “heritage” aspect only requires elements such as the ceiling to be kept and the overall form respected, as has been the case with previous refurbishments. It still allows scope for their “house” style/branding to be imposed.
If they take over the Icon bar, then depending on the scope for chopping and change the internals, they could reconfigure by moving the vestibule staircase forward so that the bar integrates with the rest of the foyer area. I would hope for something special but if a major reconfiguration occurs then I suspect none of the 1960s “heritage” elements will be left. :–(
theatreofvarieties: Good news! They had better respect the heritage of the foyer though (and, IMO, keep the fibre optic “starfield” lights from the late 1980s refurb.)
(N.B. The Icon bar extends onto the balcony on the LSQ frontage. Therefore, it is on the same level as cinema’s foyer, adjacent to the starcase leading to screens 7-9.)
Correction to my previous post on the planning permission timeframe for the replacement roof: The respective building control entry on Westminster Council’s website notes that this has been completed. Having a look at Google Earth (i.e. the full-featured PC software rather than http://maps.google.com/) and comparing to “historical imagery,” the clearly “patched” appearance is no longer there, and so this would appear to be the case.
FanaticalAboutOdeon: A comprehensive conversion could of course not be justified in all cases, but at the same time, too many were clearly very inexpensive and were also ill-thought out.
For example, this one:
Odeon Harlow – “Urban Exploration” photo
I cannot see any purpose in the rear “corridor” seats, other than to frustrate those patrons with no other seating option given a full house, nor the two rear surround speakers on the “corridor” sidewalls.
(Maybe I am rather naive about the “purpose” of the rear seats, as this could be ideal for those wishing to engage in activities other than watching the feature?!)
This is perhaps an extreme example, but there were too many which ended up with odd seating arrangements, off-centre projection and screens angled away from the seating.
Combined with poor quality interiors the overall impression was of a “fleapit.”
More recently, many of those less than ideal conversions which still exist have, at least, been refurbished to at least provide reasonable interiors.
An application to Westminster Building Control has been submitted in relation to the “Empire Casino,” dated 2nd March 2017, for a “full refurbishment to all floors;” of potential relevance here, “including… first floor balcony works.”
External alterations may require a planning application, so we shall see…
rasLXR—Indeed white is not ideal but I’m not sure how this could be changed without seriously compromising the design? “Low reflectivity” specialist paint in a slightly off-white colour? Thinking about it, the splay walls should really all covered in white stretched fabric over acoustic absorption…
Regarding black, many “black box” auditoria with wall-to-wall screens fail in my view as one always feels as though one is in a cinema watching a screen hemmed in by the side walls and ceiling, instead of a “view into” another world.
FanaticalAboutOdeon—I agree with your comments on the “streamline moderne” Odeons. That “house style” is, to this day, respected and iconic for good reason.
My personal opinion on “ornate” fibrous plaster modellings is a very negative one indeed!
I will add, though, that many of the Odeons were subject to very poor subdivisions, and particularly those later under the control of the likes Coronet were subject to very poor maintenance, with auditoriums badly repainted, etc.
Mike Blakemore: As I’ve mentioned on this site before, my Father was an architect (Project Architect on numerous multi-million pound commercial buildings including in the entertainment/leisure sector) and, at a distance, just who in a practice was responsible for what is frequently unclear.
The RIBA published a book on a practice he had worked for—he had been involved with the design of one of the buildings therein but his name was misspelt (!) and his colleague with whom he had worked on the project was not mentioned. There were numerous other errors, too.
There are many other factors but suffice to say, whilst “house styles” of cinema chains and architectural practices are sometimes evident, I would be cautious over trying to assign credit. I suspect your complex history is in reality somewhat more involved!
moviebuff82—Regarding increased security, I attended a preview screening at VUE Westfield London (Shepherd’s Bush) yesterday and they were doing bag checks.
Of course this is “security theatre” not least since there is no such screening in the foyer nor for the mall’s very large atrium area adjacent… etc.
It seems that VUE Westfield London do have infra-red CCTV in the auditoria with live videos of such being fairly prominently displayed at the corridor entrance leading to the auditoria.
The planning permission for the replacement roof over the OLS was granted on 1 October 2014 and work must commence within 3 years of this decision or Odeon will need to go through the applications process again.
Whilst this is a “rubber stamp” matter, no subsequent planning application is shown on Westminster’s planning applications database.
If the refurbishment is to be started this year, then it seems likely that it will happen before October.
Come to think of it, what’s needed is more steeply raked seating in the front stalls.
BTW, here is a very high-resolution scan of the old OLS “cut-away” diagram:
Great news, hopefully!
From the Variety article: ““It’s impossible to think anyone would object to what we have planned for Odeon Leicester Square,” Aron said, adding that the upgrades would improve the site while retaining its character.”
Hmm, “impossible to think anyone would object”—maybe I’m being paranoid, but that sounds slightly omninous!
The Empire conversion and VUE West End refurb came in at around the £5m mark, so £10-15m sounds very extensive.
The large IMAX screen was only possible in the Empire by a hair’s (or roof truss'!) breadth.
I imagine there is some scope for increasing the screen size within the existing proscenium provided the rear stalls are removed—possibly in part for the additional toilets mentioned in the Variety article?!
FantaticalAboutOdeon—Re. reclining seats at the Empire—the same type of seats are installed in the “IMPACT” screen and they do recline. I don’t think there’s enough space in the IMAX screen because it’s using the original 1928 circle steppings.
As for the “iSense” brand—the OLS already is “iSense”… if you sit towards the front!
http://vue-international.com/index.php/our-media/press-releases/110-introducing-the-new-vue-west-end
“A £6.6 million investment will see Vue’s West End venue […] offer guests the choice of fully reclining leather seats […] all other seats will be ‘VIP’ and have been designed to be super spacious, with extra room to stretch out and relax. […] There will be a total of 1,385 VIP and luxurious reclining seats. […]
“*Dolby Atmos installed in two screens […] all screens will also benefit from […] Sony 4K digital projection.
“retail offer with two new hot food concessions – Square Pie and Pizzeria Maletti – as well as a complete redesign of the foyer and existing bar area. A 62.7m² digital screen will also be installed on the exterior of the building.”
Surely the “IMPACT” screen? The auditorium (from the plans) looks to be about 22mx18m or so, with a high ceiling, whilst Screen 2 is about 18mx13m?
The Licensing Application is up on Westminster Council’s website, no. 17/00626/LIPVM.
From it, here are the new seat counts:
Auditorium 1 68 standard / 22 VIP / 9 Luxury/ 99 Total / 1 Accessible
Auditorium 2 57 standard / 12 VIP / 10 Luxury / 79 Total / 1 Accessible
Auditorium 3 121 standard / 24 VIP / 10 Luxury / 155 Total / 2 Accessible
Auditorium 4 121 standard / 24 VIP / 10 Luxury / 155 Total / 2 Accessible
Auditorium 5 229 standard / 48 VIP / 20 Luxury / 297 Total / 4 Accessible
Auditorium 6 120 standard / 20 VIP / 10 Luxury / 150 Total / 2 Accessible
Auditorium 7 229 standard / 48 VIP / 20 Luxury / 297 Total / 4 Accessible
Auditorium 8 89 standard / 26 VIP / 8 Luxury / 123 Total / 2 Accessible
Auditorium 9 138 standard / 30 VIP / 9 Luxury / 177 Total / 2 Accessible
All auditoria 1172 standard / 254 VIP / 106 Luxury / 1532 Total / 20 Accessible
Works mentioned in the application include:
-Front box office removed.
-Ground floor concessions counter to be removed and replaced with two counters on the side walls.
-Changes to first floor lounge including new seating and refitted bar.
-Managers' office converted to a ‘Green Room.’
No significant internal changes are shown on the plans, so I would assume the ‘refurb’ of the auditoria will be ‘cosmetic,‘ with the same (or similar) sized screens etc.