Wow, what a saga. I’m all for any added safety improvements. But for the city government to mandate something so costly, without a plan to help pay for it on a place that should be grandfathered in anyway, is shameful.
My guess is that the city silently was also against the concert venue idea as well. The Coronet Theatre in Evanston Illinois suffered a similar fate over that. An initial liquor license stipulated that it could only be served in the lobby, not the auditorium. Spotters were dispatched to witness any “rule breaking”.
It eventually became such a headache to continue to build a business that was ironically a potential boon to the area, that they just threw in the towel. It was torn down and became condos & retail space.
My thoughts and hopes are with the Ioka.
Hope your film turns out well. Be sure to include the former pool area.
P.S. The Chrysler pictured is a 1956.
Chrysler designer Virgil Exner’s first year with a tail fin. Which would go crazy the following year.
Yeah, those letters truly are cool. I’d forgotten until I saw the Woods page that some theatre’s had those. I think the State-Lake did too.
Must have been pretty labor intensive to change them all out as the movies changed. Maybe why they replaced them all the the blank white marquee’s withe the hanging letters.
I couldn’t re-find the NY theatre where the relevance of posting old theatre phone numbers was questioned.
I for one relish the little tidbits of information like that. As much as the various organ makes, year of installation, etc.
In Chicago, the phone numbers used to sometimes corrolate to the neighborhoods. Mohawk4-2700, etc.
Seeing those style numbers for instance sparked my memory that Chicago’s Esquire was once Whitehall7-1111. One famous local defunct carpet company was Bouchelle. Who’s number Hudson3-2700 was sung in commercials by a booming bass voice that went so low on the 700 part, it was copied for years.
I guess my point is that seeing those old numbers posted for any theatre, might wake up memories in some that could end up being relevant to other theatres, and so on. Especially when it comes to the surrounding neighborhood of the theatre’s in their past.
In defense of the Rush Street area, not all was “seedy”. Notorious for a constant “Night Life” might be a better characterization.
Rush Street was actually an eclectic night life mix, with the seedy being an accepted part of it. As open and accepted as say in the tourist parts of New Orleans.
In the 60's &70’s a block South of the Carnegie was Punchinello’s, Figaro’s & the Athenian Room restaurant which became Faces Disco. Tavern’s and restaurant’s that were main streamish.
But right next door was the Cabaret & Bourbon Street, which featured female dancers. The seedy was like an either/or choice for night time visitors. What made the specific strip joint’s seem seedy from the outside was basically the hawkers out front.
(Inside of course was sometimes a different story, depending which one you entered.)
A block further South beyond the Maryland Hotel which was quite nice, was another cluster of actual strip joints. The Candy Store, etc. But next to that was La Margarita. An established Mexican restaurant with several locations. Art galleries, jewelers, shops and other “upscale eclectic eating establishments”, rounded out the rest of Rush Street even back then.
So really it was a neighborhood, that took on a lively, different persona after dark. The Carnegie & Esquire were both a part of it.
Just caught DavidH’s December 07 post about the Sonja Heine montage of skating films being run at the Carnegie.
This is entirely plausible. Another famous olympian skater also lived a block away from the Carnegie. She may have been instrumental in arranging the series. We met her more than 10 years ago with some out of town guest from her native country.
In talking with her we learned she'd likely lived on the same block when we did in the60’s.
As all the previous posts indicate, the Carnegie was truly great at promotions and fanfare.
Thanks. I originally inquired on this page just because both are situated in New York.
I guess it’s sheer coincidence that the Loew’s was built by the father of he who built Hammerstein’s Theatre to honor him. The latter now being the Ed Sullivan Theatre.
Also a coincidence that both theatre’s failed under the family ownership not long after opening. The second due to the depression.
They were apparently mere blocks away from each other geographically.
1516 for Loew’s, versus 1697 for Hammerstein’s.
Thanks for the info & link.
What was the original name of what is now The Ed Sullivan Theatre where Letterman tapes out of?
Was it ever a movie theatre, and how is it listed on CT? Thanks.
I wonder if they still owned the land after selling the theatre in 47. Another piece of property they didn't have to pay taxes on. I think it was the Evanston Mayor or someone in85 who suggested NU could pay $5 per student/per semester tax or so to pick up the slack that was begining to burden Evanston homeowners. It never happened.
Ah, BERLITZ. I did recall it right on 8/22. I remember often seeing their bright, vertical neon from the “L” in the `70’s. Ironic that it went from being a bar to a clinic.
I just remembered why I was over by The Alameda for extended periods of time `91. I helped a friend rebuild some of the neon at the Rainbo Room.
Added some vandal proofing as well.
We parked the van by the Alameda often.
Those multiple 2x4 props under the marquee were scar-y.
Yes, you got me, I do agree. I guess the State St. elevation just turned my stomach so bad, that I wanted to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Even the shorter building next door to the North is a basically a prop front.
Illuminated window boxes where Dr. Wax Records or whatever used to be.
Thanks for educating me on some of landmark status' angles. What I heard on CVS was they were fully expecting a new structure at first. Then the powers that be informed the building’s actual owner (CVS is a tenant), that the building must remain. CVS then reluctantly agreed to the conversion.
They should have just gone over to the 17 year vacant-S/E corner, which already looked like a drug store. Now a Bank of America.
The heights of the old Hotsie and apartment building to the East consequently had to be rebuilt as was by CVS.
Hence the differing heights.
The Congress has hope, but is in bad need of some cosmetic TLC.
I understand why they removed the seats, but it cost them the “new” roller derby in the process.
The biggest, costliest thing about these old palaces, is heating them in the winter. And keeping a roof and the brickwork watertight.
Greetings BWChicago. I’ll gladly admit that I probably know next to nothing, on how the landmarking is supposed to or does work.
After surviving Ald. Natarus for over 30 years in my old ward, I only know how I would have “liked” landmarking to work.
Given everything classic that was taken down on the Near North side over the years,
landmark status sadly always seemed like a last resort that ended up not protecting anything enough anyway.
I do know though that most owners are resistant to landmark status. Because of the limitations it puts them under on how they can ever remodel in the future. However as we’ve learned in some cases though, even that status is so loose that sometimes all they need do is preserve the facade.
Even a “National Register of Historic Places” status doesn’t really protect a building in Chicago. I’ll await to see what happens to Pearson St.(Hair Loft) by Loyola.
Sometimes even an opposite “preservation overkill” is applied. Building’s that even I agree should have come down, but instead were poorly rebuilt to remain “preserved”.
The CVS at State & Division is a perfect example. They simply tore down everything except the outsides walls of it, and it’s Northbound neighbor. Then they built the CVS inside of it all. Even the upstairs in fake. A backlit hollow space over two stories tall inside. They blasted a blank brown sign right through an old concrete morter & pestal motif on the State St. side. Ironically it was originally a drug store. Then they hacked off brick work from where a door used to be, and left it that way.
Truly an eyesore “after” preservation.
I guess my interpretation of how landmarking “should” work, is that a protected building is just that.
And that only plumbing, HVAC, electric & the roof would be capable of being updated. But in a case of say the Esquire, I would have been happy if they rebuilt the interior however was needed to make it workable. Since it was already gutted when it was multi-plexed. Aty least we’d get to keep the art deco exterior & marquee.
Greetings Mpol. I posted my recollection to one of the Canadian theatres listed on CT. In hopes someone might also recall the ban I referred to.
Since our experience was in 1967, and the fire that drove the ban was recent as of then, it would have occurred after your above timeline of late 50's/early60’s. Also we were 7 & 11, and not teenagers.
My mother also recalled our Canadian encounter when I asked. Because it reminded her of a similar experience she, her mother & small brothers had at the Gold Coast(Village Theatre) at Clark & North in Chicago, in the `40’s.
Though a fire was not the reason there or then. The Gold Coast at one time just didn’t admit children to anything.
Hopefully someone will recall the Canadian theatre where the fire took place, and the subsequent ban that followed.
For how long it remained in effect, and if it was isolated to Montreal would be helpful to know too.
I just noticed a bit of a trend, that mught have been signaled by the introduction of the VCR. If you look at JRS40’s movie list from 4/28/07, basically after “Apocolypse Now” (fitting), The State Lake must have began struggling to keep an audience. As most of everything after that, was there for less than a month.
P.S. In comparing the various photos posted to CT, the extention tower coming off of the roof that supports the “T” & “E” sign portion, has been removed in stages.
First the old gazebo like structure from the very top was removed. Then the square box like support for the gazebo & the top two letters.
The 2007 photo shows that just a flat, upward support has been installed, so the top of the word TEXAS could be supported alone. I only looked back at these because the History.com piece had a full tower as support.
I guess I shouldn’t talk. We were regulars at the midnight double features at Chicago’s Playboy (later Sandburg) Theatre, when we were all of 12-13 years old.
Also once saw Jerry Vale at the Empire Room well past 10pm, when I was 10 myself.
I’m amazed that only 15 of the 58 theatres listed under Montreal, are still open.
I wonder if anyone from Canada can confirm, if there was a Canada wide ban on children from movie theatres back in the 1960’s.
While we visited Expo`67, my family & I tried to go out to the movies.
We were told at several theatres, that children were not allowed in any theatres no matter what film was playing.
Due to a terrible theatre fire not too long before that. One where the children had to be identified by their families after being layed out in the street.
Wow. I expect Eastwood to ride up, squint and light a cigar.
Great pic! Thanks.
Wow, what a saga. I’m all for any added safety improvements. But for the city government to mandate something so costly, without a plan to help pay for it on a place that should be grandfathered in anyway, is shameful.
My guess is that the city silently was also against the concert venue idea as well. The Coronet Theatre in Evanston Illinois suffered a similar fate over that. An initial liquor license stipulated that it could only be served in the lobby, not the auditorium. Spotters were dispatched to witness any “rule breaking”.
It eventually became such a headache to continue to build a business that was ironically a potential boon to the area, that they just threw in the towel. It was torn down and became condos & retail space.
My thoughts and hopes are with the Ioka.
Hope your film turns out well. Be sure to include the former pool area.
P.S. The Chrysler pictured is a 1956.
Chrysler designer Virgil Exner’s first year with a tail fin. Which would go crazy the following year.
I meant labor intensive at the Woods.
Their upper marquee was easily 2 stories tall.
Yeah, those letters truly are cool. I’d forgotten until I saw the Woods page that some theatre’s had those. I think the State-Lake did too.
Must have been pretty labor intensive to change them all out as the movies changed. Maybe why they replaced them all the the blank white marquee’s withe the hanging letters.
P.S. My point was just proved on the Peerless Theatre page.
I couldn’t re-find the NY theatre where the relevance of posting old theatre phone numbers was questioned.
I for one relish the little tidbits of information like that. As much as the various organ makes, year of installation, etc.
In Chicago, the phone numbers used to sometimes corrolate to the neighborhoods. Mohawk4-2700, etc.
Seeing those style numbers for instance sparked my memory that Chicago’s Esquire was once Whitehall7-1111. One famous local defunct carpet company was Bouchelle. Who’s number Hudson3-2700 was sung in commercials by a booming bass voice that went so low on the 700 part, it was copied for years.
I guess my point is that seeing those old numbers posted for any theatre, might wake up memories in some that could end up being relevant to other theatres, and so on. Especially when it comes to the surrounding neighborhood of the theatre’s in their past.
In defense of the Rush Street area, not all was “seedy”. Notorious for a constant “Night Life” might be a better characterization.
Rush Street was actually an eclectic night life mix, with the seedy being an accepted part of it. As open and accepted as say in the tourist parts of New Orleans.
In the
60's &70’s a block South of the Carnegie was Punchinello’s, Figaro’s & the Athenian Room restaurant which became Faces Disco. Tavern’s and restaurant’s that were main streamish.But right next door was the Cabaret & Bourbon Street, which featured female dancers. The seedy was like an either/or choice for night time visitors. What made the specific strip joint’s seem seedy from the outside was basically the hawkers out front.
(Inside of course was sometimes a different story, depending which one you entered.)
A block further South beyond the Maryland Hotel which was quite nice, was another cluster of actual strip joints. The Candy Store, etc. But next to that was La Margarita. An established Mexican restaurant with several locations. Art galleries, jewelers, shops and other “upscale eclectic eating establishments”, rounded out the rest of Rush Street even back then.
So really it was a neighborhood, that took on a lively, different persona after dark. The Carnegie & Esquire were both a part of it.
Just caught DavidH’s December
07 post about the Sonja Heine montage of skating films being run at the Carnegie. This is entirely plausible. Another famous olympian skater also lived a block away from the Carnegie. She may have been instrumental in arranging the series. We met her more than 10 years ago with some out of town guest from her native country. In talking with her we learned she'd likely lived on the same block when we did in the60’s.As all the previous posts indicate, the Carnegie was truly great at promotions and fanfare.
Thanks. I originally inquired on this page just because both are situated in New York.
I guess it’s sheer coincidence that the Loew’s was built by the father of he who built Hammerstein’s Theatre to honor him. The latter now being the Ed Sullivan Theatre.
Also a coincidence that both theatre’s failed under the family ownership not long after opening. The second due to the depression.
They were apparently mere blocks away from each other geographically.
1516 for Loew’s, versus 1697 for Hammerstein’s.
Thanks for the info & link.
The offset name on the painted marquee sure looks out of place. Was it always called the Bucyrus? Any clue as to the origin of that name?
Wonder if any older photos exist that show the marquee in some earlier incarnations. It looks as if it was built for a more stately moniker.
And they have first run films!
What a comeback.
Cheers to them!
Thanks CWalczak, will do.
What was the original name of what is now The Ed Sullivan Theatre where Letterman tapes out of?
Was it ever a movie theatre, and how is it listed on CT? Thanks.
I wonder if they still owned the land after selling the theatre in
47. Another piece of property they didn't have to pay taxes on. I think it was the Evanston Mayor or someone in85 who suggested NU could pay $5 per student/per semester tax or so to pick up the slack that was begining to burden Evanston homeowners. It never happened.Ah, BERLITZ. I did recall it right on 8/22. I remember often seeing their bright, vertical neon from the “L” in the `70’s. Ironic that it went from being a bar to a clinic.
I just remembered why I was over by The Alameda for extended periods of time `91. I helped a friend rebuild some of the neon at the Rainbo Room.
Added some vandal proofing as well.
We parked the van by the Alameda often.
Those multiple 2x4 props under the marquee were scar-y.
Yes, you got me, I do agree. I guess the State St. elevation just turned my stomach so bad, that I wanted to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Even the shorter building next door to the North is a basically a prop front.
Illuminated window boxes where Dr. Wax Records or whatever used to be.
Thanks for educating me on some of landmark status' angles. What I heard on CVS was they were fully expecting a new structure at first. Then the powers that be informed the building’s actual owner (CVS is a tenant), that the building must remain. CVS then reluctantly agreed to the conversion.
They should have just gone over to the 17 year vacant-S/E corner, which already looked like a drug store. Now a Bank of America.
The heights of the old Hotsie and apartment building to the East consequently had to be rebuilt as was by CVS.
Hence the differing heights.
The Congress has hope, but is in bad need of some cosmetic TLC.
I understand why they removed the seats, but it cost them the “new” roller derby in the process.
The biggest, costliest thing about these old palaces, is heating them in the winter. And keeping a roof and the brickwork watertight.
Greetings BWChicago. I’ll gladly admit that I probably know next to nothing, on how the landmarking is supposed to or does work.
After surviving Ald. Natarus for over 30 years in my old ward, I only know how I would have “liked” landmarking to work.
Given everything classic that was taken down on the Near North side over the years,
landmark status sadly always seemed like a last resort that ended up not protecting anything enough anyway.
I do know though that most owners are resistant to landmark status. Because of the limitations it puts them under on how they can ever remodel in the future. However as we’ve learned in some cases though, even that status is so loose that sometimes all they need do is preserve the facade.
Even a “National Register of Historic Places” status doesn’t really protect a building in Chicago. I’ll await to see what happens to Pearson St.(Hair Loft) by Loyola.
Sometimes even an opposite “preservation overkill” is applied. Building’s that even I agree should have come down, but instead were poorly rebuilt to remain “preserved”.
The CVS at State & Division is a perfect example. They simply tore down everything except the outsides walls of it, and it’s Northbound neighbor. Then they built the CVS inside of it all. Even the upstairs in fake. A backlit hollow space over two stories tall inside. They blasted a blank brown sign right through an old concrete morter & pestal motif on the State St. side. Ironically it was originally a drug store. Then they hacked off brick work from where a door used to be, and left it that way.
Truly an eyesore “after” preservation.
I guess my interpretation of how landmarking “should” work, is that a protected building is just that.
And that only plumbing, HVAC, electric & the roof would be capable of being updated. But in a case of say the Esquire, I would have been happy if they rebuilt the interior however was needed to make it workable. Since it was already gutted when it was multi-plexed. Aty least we’d get to keep the art deco exterior & marquee.
Greetings Mpol. I posted my recollection to one of the Canadian theatres listed on CT. In hopes someone might also recall the ban I referred to.
Since our experience was in 1967, and the fire that drove the ban was recent as of then, it would have occurred after your above timeline of late
50's/early60’s. Also we were 7 & 11, and not teenagers.My mother also recalled our Canadian encounter when I asked. Because it reminded her of a similar experience she, her mother & small brothers had at the Gold Coast(Village Theatre) at Clark & North in Chicago, in the `40’s.
Though a fire was not the reason there or then. The Gold Coast at one time just didn’t admit children to anything.
Hopefully someone will recall the Canadian theatre where the fire took place, and the subsequent ban that followed.
For how long it remained in effect, and if it was isolated to Montreal would be helpful to know too.
I just noticed a bit of a trend, that mught have been signaled by the introduction of the VCR. If you look at JRS40’s movie list from 4/28/07, basically after “Apocolypse Now” (fitting), The State Lake must have began struggling to keep an audience. As most of everything after that, was there for less than a month.
Ha. In the words of the Tivoli backwards: ILOVIT.
P.S. In comparing the various photos posted to CT, the extention tower coming off of the roof that supports the “T” & “E” sign portion, has been removed in stages.
First the old gazebo like structure from the very top was removed. Then the square box like support for the gazebo & the top two letters.
The 2007 photo shows that just a flat, upward support has been installed, so the top of the word TEXAS could be supported alone. I only looked back at these because the History.com piece had a full tower as support.
I guess I shouldn’t talk. We were regulars at the midnight double features at Chicago’s Playboy (later Sandburg) Theatre, when we were all of 12-13 years old.
Also once saw Jerry Vale at the Empire Room well past 10pm, when I was 10 myself.
I’m amazed that only 15 of the 58 theatres listed under Montreal, are still open.
I wonder if anyone from Canada can confirm, if there was a Canada wide ban on children from movie theatres back in the 1960’s.
While we visited Expo`67, my family & I tried to go out to the movies.
We were told at several theatres, that children were not allowed in any theatres no matter what film was playing.
Due to a terrible theatre fire not too long before that. One where the children had to be identified by their families after being layed out in the street.
Nice pic. Spike Jones Live.
It’s five minutes to ten though, what are those two little kids doin' out?