“This may possibly account for bigjoe’s Cinerama conundrum.”
Now I’m beginning to become confused.-LOL “Loew’s Cinerama was just what they called the Capitol after they installed the three booths and Cinerama equipment. It not as though there was actually ANOTHER "real theatre” called “Loew’s Cinerama” in New York.
Upon further investigation it appears I was correct. Cheyenne Autumn did have its “World Premiere” at the The Lincoln Theater, 1615 Central Avenue in downtown Cheyenne, Wyoming on October 1, 1964. It opened at the Capitol on October 3, 1964, however, I still don’t remember the film running “2 A Day” at the Capitol. I do recall the new screen installation for the premiere of John Sturges “The Hallelujah Trail” a few months later in June of 1965. They converted the theatre (curtaining off the entire top balcony and even the sides on the lower balcony) to run “The Hallelujah Trail” in single projector 70mm Ultra Panavision 70 (the replacement for 3 projector Cinerama). It wasn’t until the end of 1965 when “Doctor Zhivago opened that the Capitol FINALLY had a REAL ROADSHOW “2 A Day” WINNER! I again defer to Al Alvarez who has a good source of accurate information and wonder what he knows about it. I know my memory has been becoming very poor recently, especially my short term memory, but my long term memory is usually very good.
I really don’t count those as “real” souvenir programs because those pictures weren’t roadshows. Speaking of the Lynbrook Theatre, did any of you see Doctor Zhivago when it ran there in 70mm as a 2 a day roadshow?
There were many pictures that had premieres in the UK as Roadshows and had souvenir books but didn’t have here.
I believe that Cheyenne Autumn had its premiere in Cheyenne,, Wyoming and might have had souvenir books there, but not everywhere else. GIGI “might have had a book when it was at the Royale (or Bernard B. Jacobs, if you like that sound better….I don’t). -LOL
You bring up an interesting point with GIGI. I don’t recall ever seeing a souvenir book for GIGI when it played at the Royal (but just because I didn’t see one doesn’t mean there wasn’t one) I know that when it was moved over to the Sutton, I’m certain there wasn’t any.
As for “Cheyenne Autumn” my recollection was that it was NOT a “2 A Day Roadshow” at the Capitol (although it WAS Super Panavision 70 and run in 70mm there), so there might not have been any “official” souvenir book (there was big issue about how the U.S. treated the Indians as a result of the film).
Finally, “The Diary of Anne Frank”. Once again, while I could be wrong, I just don’t recall the film run as a “2 A Day Roadshow” at the RKO Palace. As a result, there wouldn’t have been an “official” souvenir book.
Maybe Al Alvarez might have more information on this.
Ed, the DeMille’s (Embassy, Mayfair, Columbia, etc. :) )screen was located toward 6th Avenue, with the left and right sides between 47th & 48th Streets. You entered the theatre auditorium from the 7th Avenue side. I believe that looking at the marquee, the projection booth was the 5th or 6th floor. The main booth window (a floor to ceiling window that opened all the way and had a round bar running through the center to prevent someone from falling out on 7th Avenue. :)
Radio City was late in installing 70mm equipment and when they finally installed them (Airport was their first full time 70mm presentation), the “Roadshow Era” was nearly over.
However, even had installed 70mm equipment in the beginning, the size of Radio City or the Roxy, both 6000 seat theatres, would not be able to support such long runs because of their size. Every Roadshow doesn’t turn out to be a “West Side Story” or even a Doctor Zhivago. If these things were predictable, they probably would have been able to make money with those large theatres. My own opinion is that while Radio City and the Roxy were spectacular theatres, because of their size, I don’t think either would have made a good Roadshow Theatre.
In the 17 year period you refer to, ALL those theatres also ran run of the mill films, some that were good and some that were bad. I believe (in addition to my own memory), all “Roadshow” films (films that ran ONLY twice a day, except for Wednesdays when they virtually all ran 3 times a day). I can’t remember ANY Roadshow that didn’t have souvenir or presentation program booklet. At one time I collected them myself.
It’s just too bad that the former Brooklyn Borough President, Marty Markowitz, had already got the city to commit to 90 million dollars with some “developer” that was supposed to put up 5 million, to restore Loew’s Kings.
While I’m certainly in favor of saving the Loew’s Kings (they are currently working on it now), the RKO Keith’s would have been an even better choice if I could only choose one.
You might also find this book DEMO for the RKO Flushing interesting: http://www.blurb.com/books/4315941-the-rko-theatre-of-flushing-n-y
I worked when Sam needed to take off. Although I worked at the RKO Flushing many times, in 1975 I took Century’s Prospect as my fulltime job.
The only reason the Commerce Department turned out to be right is because the Justice Department FAILED to enforce the anti-trust laws….like they did when they RUINED Loew’s/MGM )and the other theatre chains owned by film studios (Loew’s was the greatest chain of motion picture theatres there ever was or ever will be and they destroyed them). While the “consent decrees” were purportedly meant to PROTECT the independents, you can see what they caused. You be the judge – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v.Paramount_Pictures,Inc.
If you have any interest in saving the RKO Keith’s-Flushing, you might want to join this group that I’m a member of: https://www.facebook.com/groups/220242754654213/
I know Lightstone WAS booking for Irwin Knowll, but I guess he was doing his own booking when he bought the third theatre. I can’t remember the name, but Knoll was operating the Nautilus and the Roosevelt Theatre.
I’m surprised that I never ran into you at the Utopia. Although I worked until around 1974 at the DeMille (until it burned in a fire), I lived close to the Utopia and was in there quite often to talk with Ruth.
The film companies have RUINED the business today for exhibitors. Digital projection equipment has caused hundreds of independent theatres across the country to shut down because of the high equipment costs.
I remember the WAR BOND CERTIFICATE they received for selling war bonds. While both Paul and Ruth were really wonderful people, Ruth was particularly very special to me. Every time I think about what the landlord (Filderman)did to Ruth with the theatre at the end, it STILL makes my blood boil. He was essentially forcing her to twin the theatre or give it up. In the 1950’s, I can remember people coming out of the theatre on a Saturday night and Paul and Ruth addressing them by their first name. If you can believe it, they knew virtually every customer that came to the theatre by name back then! It was a TRUE neighborhood theatre.
In the 1960’s I worked in ALL 3 theatres in Long Beach (Lido, Laurel and Nautilus). I see you worked for Lightstone from 1971 to 1982. Was Hank Lightstone still booking the Nautilus Theatre (formerly the West End Theatre), or was Irwin Knoll (County Theatres)doing his own booking at that point? Did you also know Tommy Pozin?
Demolishing the Rivoli Theatre is just FURTHER PROOF that the NYC Landmarks & Preservation Commission is not only WORTHLESS, but, quite possibly corrupt.
You can only wonder WHAT THEY WERE THINKING to allow a theatre with the historic significance of the “Rivoli Theatre” to be torn down. Yet, try tearing down one of the legit (live performance house)theaters on 44th Street and see if you could get away with it. Mind you, I’m not suggesting that ANY OF THOSE THEATERS should be eliminated, because I’m not. I view those as just as historic and should be protected. It just seems that motion picture theatres appear to have no historic value in the minds of the L&PC members.
For over two decades, the RKO Keith’s-Flushing, a spectacular “atmospheric theatre”. A theatre that uses twinkling stars and a special ceiling that utilizes a special projector that projects clouds that slowly changing shape as it moves across the ceiling. The end result makes you feel (and it really works) like you are sitting out in the open watching the movie.
They say there are only 5 functioning atmospheric theatres left in the United States. Here in NYC, we probably had one of the BEST examples, but we’re letting it just ROT!
Ed, those pictures are just too depressing to look at. They’ve demolished all the great movie palaces, what are they going to destroy now for an encore? When it comes to movie palaces, New York City is culturally bankrupt!
Ed, As usual, you’re right on the money. It was JUST A MATTER OF LUCK that the Wonder Theatres are still there. When I worked at the RKO Alden, across the street from Loew’s Valencia (my personal favorite Wonder Theatre) I never thought that “The Tabernacle Of Prayer” would be the one to “save” the Valencia….I am really surprised at how well they have maintained it.
While not a Wonder Theatre, I only wish they could have saved Loew’s Triboro.
Mike (saps, I agree, that is probably the WORST picture to depict this theatre….unless you just want to show how low things became in NY.
Bob Endres, You’re right it belongs on the Music Hall page. The Roxy (Radio City Roxy, not the Seventh Ave, Taft Hotel Roxy-probably even sadder.), later called Centre, etc., was a 3,400 seat beauty. The remark “Well two out of three isn’t bad!” just makes me feel even madder! Compared to MANY other cities around the country, they just have NO RESPECT for theatres in NY City and even LESS RESPECT for movie theatres.
The ONLY reason the building is still there is from that “last minute” burst of action you refer to. Just remember what happened to the RKO Center (Rockefeller Center “ROXY”), which to date, is the ONLY building in the complex to be torn down. It was a SAD DAY.
Besides the old Newsreel Theatre, Peter Elson (or maybe it was his dad) also had a thing for the “Guild” name. I guess because of the little Guild 50th Theatre he operated, which was a “side hole” to the Music Hall-LOL The Guild 50th used to get the overflow during Radio City’s Xmas show from the people waiting online that didn’t make into the Music Hall after waiting nearly 2 hours. The Guild 50TH usually ran Disney Pictures around Xmas….just like the Music Hall did for many times for Xmas.
They make a big deal over Radio City TODAY, however, at one point when some Japanese Group owned it not that long ago, demolition seemed A REAL POSSIBILITY! I don’t recall ANY groundswell of protection and not as word from the Landmarks & Preservation Commission.
Many of these properties have an intrinsic value that can’t be judged based on standard values used for plain old real estate. That was purportedly the reason that the LANDMARKS & PRESERVASTION COMMISSION WAS CREATED!
The Rivoli is (was) a perfect example of a free standing GEM!!! If that wasn’t worthy of being “landmarked” than WHAT IS?
I know that nothing will ever change, however, I can at least express my DISGUST with the system….even if it’s only here. There’s really nothing left to fight for, since the damage has already been done and in reality, THEY ARE ALL GONE.
If anyone is interested, there is still a theatre in Queens, that although deteriorating, The RKO KEITH’S, FLUSHING, is one of only a handful of “atmospheric theatres” that still exist in the U.S. For those of you that aren’t familiar with the title of “atmospheric theatre”, it’s a theatre that gave the illusion that you were sitting outside while watching the movie. It did this by using twinkling stars and a cloud machine that slowly moved changing cloud shapes across the blue background ceiling. IT WORKED REALLY WELL. You can see what’s going on with the fight to save this theatre here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/220242754654213/
Ed, Just ANOTHER SAD DAY in the history of New York’s Movie Palaces. I’m still mourning Loew’s Capatol, Strand and the Rivoli. These were TRUE landmarks and should have been preserved. But then again, I miss the Automat.-LOL
Robert E is correct, there was NO REAL BACKSTAGE and NO Dressing Rooms. I worked at the DeMille until the fire and then went back for a short time when this guy Clark, who owned a theatre on 42nd ST operated it before Elson. I think the film that we re-opened with was “Once Is Not Enough”, however, it wasn’t exclusive and he soon failed.
The Diaz brothers also owned and operated the “Ridgewood Theatre” I don’t know how I could forget that theatre. A group is NOW trying to get Landmark Status for this theatre because it’s architect was Thomas Lamb (he designed some of the most spectacular theatres in the U.S.
You might find these interesting:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/138383729516766/
and my FAVORITE THEATRE: https://www.facebook.com/groups/220242754654213/
“This may possibly account for bigjoe’s Cinerama conundrum.”
Now I’m beginning to become confused.-LOL “Loew’s Cinerama was just what they called the Capitol after they installed the three booths and Cinerama equipment. It not as though there was actually ANOTHER "real theatre” called “Loew’s Cinerama” in New York.
Upon further investigation it appears I was correct. Cheyenne Autumn did have its “World Premiere” at the The Lincoln Theater, 1615 Central Avenue in downtown Cheyenne, Wyoming on October 1, 1964. It opened at the Capitol on October 3, 1964, however, I still don’t remember the film running “2 A Day” at the Capitol. I do recall the new screen installation for the premiere of John Sturges “The Hallelujah Trail” a few months later in June of 1965. They converted the theatre (curtaining off the entire top balcony and even the sides on the lower balcony) to run “The Hallelujah Trail” in single projector 70mm Ultra Panavision 70 (the replacement for 3 projector Cinerama). It wasn’t until the end of 1965 when “Doctor Zhivago opened that the Capitol FINALLY had a REAL ROADSHOW “2 A Day” WINNER! I again defer to Al Alvarez who has a good source of accurate information and wonder what he knows about it. I know my memory has been becoming very poor recently, especially my short term memory, but my long term memory is usually very good.
I really don’t count those as “real” souvenir programs because those pictures weren’t roadshows. Speaking of the Lynbrook Theatre, did any of you see Doctor Zhivago when it ran there in 70mm as a 2 a day roadshow?
Thanks Al! I figured you would have the answer.
There were many pictures that had premieres in the UK as Roadshows and had souvenir books but didn’t have here.
I believe that Cheyenne Autumn had its premiere in Cheyenne,, Wyoming and might have had souvenir books there, but not everywhere else. GIGI “might have had a book when it was at the Royale (or Bernard B. Jacobs, if you like that sound better….I don’t). -LOL
You bring up an interesting point with GIGI. I don’t recall ever seeing a souvenir book for GIGI when it played at the Royal (but just because I didn’t see one doesn’t mean there wasn’t one) I know that when it was moved over to the Sutton, I’m certain there wasn’t any.
As for “Cheyenne Autumn” my recollection was that it was NOT a “2 A Day Roadshow” at the Capitol (although it WAS Super Panavision 70 and run in 70mm there), so there might not have been any “official” souvenir book (there was big issue about how the U.S. treated the Indians as a result of the film).
Finally, “The Diary of Anne Frank”. Once again, while I could be wrong, I just don’t recall the film run as a “2 A Day Roadshow” at the RKO Palace. As a result, there wouldn’t have been an “official” souvenir book.
Maybe Al Alvarez might have more information on this.
Ed Solero,
Ed, the DeMille’s (Embassy, Mayfair, Columbia, etc. :) )screen was located toward 6th Avenue, with the left and right sides between 47th & 48th Streets. You entered the theatre auditorium from the 7th Avenue side. I believe that looking at the marquee, the projection booth was the 5th or 6th floor. The main booth window (a floor to ceiling window that opened all the way and had a round bar running through the center to prevent someone from falling out on 7th Avenue. :)
Astyanax,
Radio City was late in installing 70mm equipment and when they finally installed them (Airport was their first full time 70mm presentation), the “Roadshow Era” was nearly over.
However, even had installed 70mm equipment in the beginning, the size of Radio City or the Roxy, both 6000 seat theatres, would not be able to support such long runs because of their size. Every Roadshow doesn’t turn out to be a “West Side Story” or even a Doctor Zhivago. If these things were predictable, they probably would have been able to make money with those large theatres. My own opinion is that while Radio City and the Roxy were spectacular theatres, because of their size, I don’t think either would have made a good Roadshow Theatre.
bigjoe59,
In the 17 year period you refer to, ALL those theatres also ran run of the mill films, some that were good and some that were bad. I believe (in addition to my own memory), all “Roadshow” films (films that ran ONLY twice a day, except for Wednesdays when they virtually all ran 3 times a day). I can’t remember ANY Roadshow that didn’t have souvenir or presentation program booklet. At one time I collected them myself.
BobFurmanek, Is there anyway to post those pictures in a resolution so you can read the article? Thanks.
It’s just too bad that the former Brooklyn Borough President, Marty Markowitz, had already got the city to commit to 90 million dollars with some “developer” that was supposed to put up 5 million, to restore Loew’s Kings.
While I’m certainly in favor of saving the Loew’s Kings (they are currently working on it now), the RKO Keith’s would have been an even better choice if I could only choose one.
You might also find this book DEMO for the RKO Flushing interesting: http://www.blurb.com/books/4315941-the-rko-theatre-of-flushing-n-y
I worked when Sam needed to take off. Although I worked at the RKO Flushing many times, in 1975 I took Century’s Prospect as my fulltime job.
The only reason the Commerce Department turned out to be right is because the Justice Department FAILED to enforce the anti-trust laws….like they did when they RUINED Loew’s/MGM )and the other theatre chains owned by film studios (Loew’s was the greatest chain of motion picture theatres there ever was or ever will be and they destroyed them). While the “consent decrees” were purportedly meant to PROTECT the independents, you can see what they caused. You be the judge – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v.Paramount_Pictures,Inc.
If you have any interest in saving the RKO Keith’s-Flushing, you might want to join this group that I’m a member of: https://www.facebook.com/groups/220242754654213/
Bruce
I know Lightstone WAS booking for Irwin Knowll, but I guess he was doing his own booking when he bought the third theatre. I can’t remember the name, but Knoll was operating the Nautilus and the Roosevelt Theatre.
I’m surprised that I never ran into you at the Utopia. Although I worked until around 1974 at the DeMille (until it burned in a fire), I lived close to the Utopia and was in there quite often to talk with Ruth.
The film companies have RUINED the business today for exhibitors. Digital projection equipment has caused hundreds of independent theatres across the country to shut down because of the high equipment costs.
pumpop201,
I remember the WAR BOND CERTIFICATE they received for selling war bonds. While both Paul and Ruth were really wonderful people, Ruth was particularly very special to me. Every time I think about what the landlord (Filderman)did to Ruth with the theatre at the end, it STILL makes my blood boil. He was essentially forcing her to twin the theatre or give it up. In the 1950’s, I can remember people coming out of the theatre on a Saturday night and Paul and Ruth addressing them by their first name. If you can believe it, they knew virtually every customer that came to the theatre by name back then! It was a TRUE neighborhood theatre.
In the 1960’s I worked in ALL 3 theatres in Long Beach (Lido, Laurel and Nautilus). I see you worked for Lightstone from 1971 to 1982. Was Hank Lightstone still booking the Nautilus Theatre (formerly the West End Theatre), or was Irwin Knoll (County Theatres)doing his own booking at that point? Did you also know Tommy Pozin?
Demolishing the Rivoli Theatre is just FURTHER PROOF that the NYC Landmarks & Preservation Commission is not only WORTHLESS, but, quite possibly corrupt.
You can only wonder WHAT THEY WERE THINKING to allow a theatre with the historic significance of the “Rivoli Theatre” to be torn down. Yet, try tearing down one of the legit (live performance house)theaters on 44th Street and see if you could get away with it. Mind you, I’m not suggesting that ANY OF THOSE THEATERS should be eliminated, because I’m not. I view those as just as historic and should be protected. It just seems that motion picture theatres appear to have no historic value in the minds of the L&PC members.
For over two decades, the RKO Keith’s-Flushing, a spectacular “atmospheric theatre”. A theatre that uses twinkling stars and a special ceiling that utilizes a special projector that projects clouds that slowly changing shape as it moves across the ceiling. The end result makes you feel (and it really works) like you are sitting out in the open watching the movie.
They say there are only 5 functioning atmospheric theatres left in the United States. Here in NYC, we probably had one of the BEST examples, but we’re letting it just ROT!
Ed, those pictures are just too depressing to look at. They’ve demolished all the great movie palaces, what are they going to destroy now for an encore? When it comes to movie palaces, New York City is culturally bankrupt!
Ed, As usual, you’re right on the money. It was JUST A MATTER OF LUCK that the Wonder Theatres are still there. When I worked at the RKO Alden, across the street from Loew’s Valencia (my personal favorite Wonder Theatre) I never thought that “The Tabernacle Of Prayer” would be the one to “save” the Valencia….I am really surprised at how well they have maintained it.
While not a Wonder Theatre, I only wish they could have saved Loew’s Triboro.
Mike (saps, I agree, that is probably the WORST picture to depict this theatre….unless you just want to show how low things became in NY.
Bob Endres, You’re right it belongs on the Music Hall page. The Roxy (Radio City Roxy, not the Seventh Ave, Taft Hotel Roxy-probably even sadder.), later called Centre, etc., was a 3,400 seat beauty. The remark “Well two out of three isn’t bad!” just makes me feel even madder! Compared to MANY other cities around the country, they just have NO RESPECT for theatres in NY City and even LESS RESPECT for movie theatres.
RobertEndres,
The ONLY reason the building is still there is from that “last minute” burst of action you refer to. Just remember what happened to the RKO Center (Rockefeller Center “ROXY”), which to date, is the ONLY building in the complex to be torn down. It was a SAD DAY.
bigjoe59,
Besides the old Newsreel Theatre, Peter Elson (or maybe it was his dad) also had a thing for the “Guild” name. I guess because of the little Guild 50th Theatre he operated, which was a “side hole” to the Music Hall-LOL The Guild 50th used to get the overflow during Radio City’s Xmas show from the people waiting online that didn’t make into the Music Hall after waiting nearly 2 hours. The Guild 50TH usually ran Disney Pictures around Xmas….just like the Music Hall did for many times for Xmas.
They make a big deal over Radio City TODAY, however, at one point when some Japanese Group owned it not that long ago, demolition seemed A REAL POSSIBILITY! I don’t recall ANY groundswell of protection and not as word from the Landmarks & Preservation Commission.
bigjoe59,
Many of these properties have an intrinsic value that can’t be judged based on standard values used for plain old real estate. That was purportedly the reason that the LANDMARKS & PRESERVASTION COMMISSION WAS CREATED!
The Rivoli is (was) a perfect example of a free standing GEM!!! If that wasn’t worthy of being “landmarked” than WHAT IS?
I know that nothing will ever change, however, I can at least express my DISGUST with the system….even if it’s only here. There’s really nothing left to fight for, since the damage has already been done and in reality, THEY ARE ALL GONE.
If anyone is interested, there is still a theatre in Queens, that although deteriorating, The RKO KEITH’S, FLUSHING, is one of only a handful of “atmospheric theatres” that still exist in the U.S. For those of you that aren’t familiar with the title of “atmospheric theatre”, it’s a theatre that gave the illusion that you were sitting outside while watching the movie. It did this by using twinkling stars and a cloud machine that slowly moved changing cloud shapes across the blue background ceiling. IT WORKED REALLY WELL. You can see what’s going on with the fight to save this theatre here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/220242754654213/
Ed, Just ANOTHER SAD DAY in the history of New York’s Movie Palaces. I’m still mourning Loew’s Capatol, Strand and the Rivoli. These were TRUE landmarks and should have been preserved. But then again, I miss the Automat.-LOL
bigjoe59,
Robert E is correct, there was NO REAL BACKSTAGE and NO Dressing Rooms. I worked at the DeMille until the fire and then went back for a short time when this guy Clark, who owned a theatre on 42nd ST operated it before Elson. I think the film that we re-opened with was “Once Is Not Enough”, however, it wasn’t exclusive and he soon failed.
Right, all under the ownership of the Diaz brothers.
The Diaz brothers also owned and operated the “Ridgewood Theatre” I don’t know how I could forget that theatre. A group is NOW trying to get Landmark Status for this theatre because it’s architect was Thomas Lamb (he designed some of the most spectacular theatres in the U.S.
You might find these interesting: https://www.facebook.com/groups/138383729516766/
and my FAVORITE THEATRE: https://www.facebook.com/groups/220242754654213/