Ziegfeld Theatre
141 W. 54th Street,
New York,
NY
10019
141 W. 54th Street,
New York,
NY
10019
131 people
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Vito: Many of the shows I attended at the Ziegfeld were as good as I’d ever remembered them and, in two cases, better. I’d never before seen “North by Northwest” and “Doctor Zhivago” on a screen that big and at a volume that loud.
Vito, an extra apology to you-I truly am humiliated in looking at what I said)!
Gary
Thank you Gary, your apology is appreciated and accepted.
By the way, I miss the D-150 as well.
Some of us have been a little tough on Clearview, in retrospect I am sorry in some ways. I suppose being “old school” I wanted the shows to run the way I remembered them. However, as many have pointed out it was a good effort and I have a feeling Clearview learned a lot on this thread and the next festival will be even better.
Ah, yes, to go back to the days when I was a manager in NY and we had reel to reel…
The refunds we gave out when the projectionist fell asleep at the Waverly.
The abuse I got from when he passed out drunk at the Bay.
The beating I received when he disappeared from the booth altogether at the Fresh Meadows and that infamous BACKDRAFT World Premiere at the Ziegfeld!
Ah, the good old days…
Attention to detail is when you prerun the show and notice the credits have been spliced together out of order. Then you take the time to open the splices and put it back together the right way rather than just run it. These are the sorts of details the audience never knows about, but this happened at one of last years films at the Lafayette. I forget the title, but I remember Pete reassembling the strips at the rewind bench so it would be right. The other question is what kind of film handler did the splices out of order to begin with? That’s a differnet topic entirely, but these are the kind of things you can find and fix when you have your operation fine tuned and know what to look for.
Flagship of what, I wonder.
I’ve been to many shows at the Lafayette and the presentations have always been perfect. Pete takes the time to rehearse the show each week, and always get it right.
It’s quite amazing when an 82 year old theater in Suffern has better presentation standards than the flagship Ziegfeld Theater in NYC!
Pete, it may not be 70mm, but you can come run magnetic any time you want at my place :)
Thanks to Robert Harris for lending some credibility to the frustration that I and others experienced at the shows. You can only imagine how Robert feels knowing this treasure was not treated with the proper respect after the thousands of man hours put into restoring it. At least visually Robert, it was perfect at my show, and it was beautiful. Robert’s suggestion for a higher than normal ticket price is also an excellent one if it means the proper staff is on hand for a limited 70mm engagement. I would have gladly paid $20 to see LOA.
While it’s been suggested I was too critical and that I should be careful that management doesn’t just “take their ball and go home”, I disagree that negative comments should not be voiced. I’ve given both positive and negative comments. If you screw up, you need to be prepared to hear about it.
And as for what Ed has said, if the Zeigfeld wants continuing support, they will have to prove they are up to it. I’ll go to future shows they offer, but if I get the same lack of showmanship I got last week, then they would certainly loose a customer. I can get lack of showmanship anywhere, I don’t need to make a special trip to the city for it.
I sincerly hope the Ziegfeld continues the program, gets their act together, and books some other restored 70mm classics. For when they do, I’m there, and I want them to win me back.
Excellent points, Robert. I’m glad this site and thread has attracted your attention. I’m somewhat dismayed that Craig was not responsive to your calls – especially in light of how receptive he has been to others who have contacted him during this series. While the discount price was nice, I would easily have paid full price to see these great films properly presented at the Ziegfeld. And I would most certainly be prepared to pay a premium for a deluxe 70mm presentation.
Irv… I must take you to task on your suggestion to suppress any criticism about the Ziegfeld’s handling of this series, lest we frustrate them to the point that they abandon the concept entirely. As long as we are supporting the series by our paid attendance, we have a right to voice our praise or our grievances. I think the response from this board regarding the series has been overwhelmingly positive and appreciative. Our criticisms are offered constructively, for the most part, and I believe Clearview management has received them in that spirit. In fact, I would venture to say that our criticisms and suggestions have actually resulted in many improvements along the way.
If unquestioning patronage is what they really want with the Ziegfeld’s Classics series, without regard to satisfying audience expectations, better they should discontinue the policy altogether and leave such things to the devoted staff at the Loew’s Jersey or the Lafayette in Suffern. I don’t think that is what they are all about, however. I have a somewhat more optimistic outlook than Jack Theakston in this regard, and look forward to the series' ongoing success and improving quality.
While I appreciate the sentiment Bob F, I wouldn’t like to commute to Manhattan. Although for the chance to run 70mmm… :)
The things Robert Harris posted about are what I strive for with my film series at the Lafayette and should be what everyone wants to see at any venue. I applaud the Ziegfeld’s choice to run a classic film series (and I know a just a bit about what that entailed on their part) and hope they do it again in the slow times, but they can take a few extra steps next time to ensure that things are as close to perfect as possible. I’m glad they’ve received much positive feedback and I hope they take the suggestions made in the spirit they are intended.
Seems to me that the Ziegfeld needs Peter Apruzzese in the booth!
Some miscellaneous musings on the situation…
Cinematic perfection is something difficult, but decidedly not impossible, to achieve.
When it is achieved, there are generally a number of things that fall into place, or are brought into place beforehand.
A new print is always nice, that has been screened in advance to check for lab defects.
A Tech or techs are always welcome to check everything from the illumination source to the cleanliness of the porthole.
Someone from DTS or Dolby is always a welcome visitor to make certain that all channels of amplification are all systems are properly functional.
And then we have the big one:
Rehearsal.
From the lowering of curtain lights to the end of the show.
But most of this simply doesn’t occur unless one is overseeing special occasion.
So some of the questions that should arise for a “non special occasion” might be these:
Should the operator or projectionist open the 13 cases of film and inspect the print on a bench before attempting to screen it? Replacement reels are available if a problem is found in time, and the studio is extremely professional in handling these situations. They want to screening to be as perfect as possible.
Should one time the lights and curtain cues to the film before running the print before the public?
Should prices be lowered for classic films double the length of a normal film? I can answer that one.
“No.”
If one takes into consideration a nominal discount for students and / or the elderly, the ticket price for a 70mm presentation twice the normal length of a normal film should not be less than $20 or thereabouts.
And at that price, one can afford to bring in the necessary techs to see to potential problems beforehand and make the screening special.
Proper projection is not brain surgery, but a certain number of things need to be done in advance to make certain that the show goes on in the style befitting a theatre like the Ziegfeld.
I would have been nice if all this went off without a Hitch, but certain things need to be set in motion in advance.
I placed calls to Craig O'Connor toward the end of February and never received a response.
RAH
Irv,
The fact of the matter is that the Ziegfeld looses more money operating films than it does sitting in the dark. I don’t want to get into the background behind it, but with a company like Clearview (owned by Cablevision) running it, it’s not going anywhere anytime soon, thankfully.
Classic films there is all a very interesting experiment, but unfortunately, I don’t see it lasting. The economics and red tape behind it all don’t seem to have justified the means, even if it is seeing a great film in a great venue.
My best wishes are with the Ziegfeld’s programming. After reading what has happened there, I would be slightly embarrassed to run further programming until the bugs in the system have been worked out. Perhaps they will be able to do classic shows once again. Hopefully, by that time, they’ll have a staff that is better prepared for this particular form of event.
Come to think of it, some of the shows in the series WERE perfect, as far as such a thing is possible. Those prints of “Raiders” and “Temple of Doom” were flawless. They were in sharp focus on a 50 ft. screen and turned up LOUD. In the world we live in, where there are no more Cinerama screens within several hundred miles of New York, what could be better?
I’ll be going to “Lawrence” tonight to say goodbye to the Classics series, and I sincerely hope it’s not the last time I get to experience classics at the Ziegfeld.
To all:
My sincere apologies for the language. It will definitely not happen again, and I thank you for the criticism, you were absolutely appropriate about it, and I deserved to be taken to task-I am embarrassed and apologize for losing it. And I have no excuses, so I won’t even try. I believe that we all want the same thing, i.e, the Ziegfeld to survive, the classics series to survive, and a great experience there. If anything, the ups and downs of this series has shown me that there is a passionate force of individuals out there, and, sorry Jeff, although I respect everything you’ve said, absolutely everything, I cannot assume that anyone from Clearview is reading these comments. Maybe they are, but there is so much at stake here,that I can’t assume it—-it is absolutely worth speaking your mind directly to Craig. That’s just my way of thinking. It was so important to me that we had the “Definitive” version of CE3K, that I was in touch with first Monique, and then Craig, whom she referred me, too, constantly.
As the festival ends, we now have much bigger issues than this—I see the passion in all these posts, and it’s great (except, again for my language). Ed, I miss the UA Cinema 150 so much, I could cry.
I went to see “Hook” there opening night (I know kids seem to love this movie, but I hated it) Regardless, I drove over an hour just to see it in that theater. Now I can’t do that anymore.
Again, I am not a movie professional, and there are so many professionals as well as Ziegfeld and movie lovers here, that I believe that you can cut and paste your comments and send them directly to Craig—everyone is articulate and to the point ( well, maybe except me and my foul mouth, Vito, an extra apology to you-I truly am humiliated in looking at what I said)!
Gary
Well the Ziegfeld Theatre was originally planned to be a Cinerama house during the planning days.
I agree with Movieguy718 last post, and just to add that; I have seen 6 of the films in this series, in hind sight I wish I had seen more. C'mon we’ve all had are issues here, myself included, about some of the prints in this series, but I have to say that the tone of some of the people on this thread is very..um, disturbing. As Bill Hueblig put so well in an earlier post ‘not every film was perfect, but all were great’. This has by far been the busiest thread on the Cinema Treasures for the last month or so with now over 1000 posts. Everytime I hear somebody go overboard with their criticisms it just makes me think that the wrong message is being sent to Clearview/Ziegfeld. I would love for the theater management to walk away from this whole thing and say ‘hey, despite a few hitches, that worked out’ instead of walking away saying ‘this was a good idea at first, but the audience for this kind of festival are a bunch of pain in the a** crybabies, we’ll never do a festival like this again’. For me the last two months of going to these films and just KNOWING it was happening was a breath of fresh air in a New York City that is very rapidly losing it’s identity. I too, do not want to walk down 54th St between 6th and 7th before the end of 2006, and see a ‘for rent’ sign hanging from the Ziegfeld. Don’t think it could happen? Come downtown below 14th street. After you see the big empty lot that used to be the Variety Theater, and the NYU dorm that used to be the Palladium/Academy of music, look around and see all of the businesses that are going under because their landlords are pricing them out. Developers don’t care about neighborhood stores, old theaters, or film revival. In the plainest of terms they want to knock stuff down and build their monuments to cultural mediocrity over what used to be a cool place. So take the good with the bad. Recognize that the Ziegfeld did an overall great job with this series, and keep supporting it financially and critically.
“otherwise don’t come on here crying that the Ziegfeld is now closed!”
Amen, RobertR. The last theater in the NYC area that looked like that was the UA Cinema 150 in Syosset, Long Island. It’s now a gym or something, but was going quite strong into the late ‘90’s.
This is what the screen at the Ziegfeld should be like
http://cinerama.topcities.com/mph052268.htm
Gary… you have to watch your language on this forum because of the diversity of membership. While I have no problem with a well chosen expletive here and there to drive home a point, not everyone shares that sort of tolerance. And I know that Patrick and Ross like to keep the language free from profanity out of respect to those who might be offended. Just a friendly word of advice.
Movieguy718: I appreciate your passion for the Ziegfeld. Believe me, if I was at all interested in “Ice Age 2”, I’d go see it there. If they run “The DaVinci Code” in May, I’ll be there for that one. I did do my part by going to see “Rent” and “The Producers” at the Ziegfeld last fall. Both flopped there, but they also flopped everywhere else. “Dreamgirls” would be a perfect Ziegfeld attraction this December.
By the way, Bill, scratches on film for some reason don’t bother me. Even splices don’t really faze me. I don’t consider that “not doing it right”. I’m happy to see a print of any repratory film, and many are quite used. I’ll take the scratches, splices, and dirt at heads/tails. The rare out-of-frame changeover. Heck, You’ve even seen me watch pink film.
“Not doing it right” is running a public show to paying customers you KNOW has problems that people will see. And unfortunately, that’s what they did Friday. I can’t and won’t speak for the other shows as I was not there. I believe you when you say the did a good job.
Focus, sync, and steadiness. Those are my three primary goals to make a film in my eyes enjoyable. Other factors that take away enjoyment (which the Ziegfeld did NOT have) is “travel ghost”, which is an improperly timed shutter. You see this as white vertical smears of light objects on black backgrounds (stands out like a sore thumb on titles).
I’m gonna have to say it again (based on some of the comments above.) There will not be another series like this at the Ziegfeld if there IS no Ziegfeld. You guys have to see the first run movies they show here. You think most of it’s crap? So do I. I’m buying a ticket to the Ziegfeld, not to the crappy movie – yes I know the theatre sees very little of the ticket $$$ which is why I then buy a bunch of stuff from the concession stand.
I have no idea what Cablevision thinks of this venue, but if they’re allowing something like this revival series – I don’t know – it kinda smells like desperation…
So get yourselves in the seats even for the crappy first run movies – otherwise don’t come on here crying that the Ziegfeld is now closed!
Ziegfeld man, I am discusted by Gary’s street talk language in this forum and ask that you please not post such comments again. I would appreciate the moderators/owners delete the post.
“We are exactly on the same page. I am making excuses for nobody. Regardless of Marvin’s dedication and good intentions, to see a projection room with 70mm film wrapped around so many rollers, each a potential disaster, was shocking to me. This is state of the art?”
Gary, yes, this IS state of the art. In fact in my own home theater I put film around 5 rollers to go from feed reel to takeup reel (this is a necessity to handle large reels). Platters DO work, I don’t like them because when used improperly they damage film. When used properly, they are no different than reel-to-reel. The trick is knowing. Myself, I’ve never used a platter, but I’ve certainly come in contact with, handled, or seen, enough film ruined by them.
“Again, I commend Clearview for their programming and taking a chance on getting an audience in the age of home video, but certainly every criticism here is worthy of attention-from the flaws in the screenings to the passes. I do not want to settle for mediocrity, but I also don’t want to settle for perfection vs. nothing.”
Point well taken, and I do commend them for trying and all things considered (I said it earlier) they picked a good slate of films. All things considered I enjoyed the presentation of LOA in 70mm but as I am a perfectionist when I project, little stuff bothers me to the point where perhaps it gets all out of proportion. The image displayed on Friday was outstanding. Sharp, brightly lit, awesome audio….but it was out of sync. Then the image jittered. I’ve beat these horses enough already, I won’t continue.
Perfection is not hard to achieve. They can get it. They had it 30 years ago when I was a regular at that theater.
I will consider sending an email to the address you mentioned, although I’m sure this person is reading here too and has seen all my comments and has considered them in the light they were offered.
“I guess I’m a bit excited, too”
It’s understandable. We all love this artform and are very opinionated. They just need to try harder next time, and in regards to 70mm presentation, much harder.
Having attended 14 classics shows, I’d say the worst thing that happened at any of them was the work of an outside agitator: the lowering of the volume in the second half of “Zhivago” on 3/11. The first half was a thrill to see and hear, in spite of the scratches on the print. Perfection is a very hard thing to come by with old movies like these, but I couldn’t disagree more with my friend Jeff when he said, “If you’re not going to do it right, don’t do it”. If the prints were old and sometimes scratched, they were always in perfect focus. If the overtures and intermissions were sometimes badly handled, there were some shows in the series when they came off beautifully. When “2001” played in 70mm in New York at the Astor Plaza, in December ‘01, the Intermission title card was removed from the print and the second part was spliced right onto the end of the first – far worse than the way the Ziegfeld handled it. I guess what I’m trying to say is I’m glad I attended all these shows, I’ll remember them for a long time, and I’m grateful to the Ziegfeld for presenting them and hope they do it again first chance they get.