Ziegfeld Theatre
141 W. 54th Street,
New York,
NY
10019
141 W. 54th Street,
New York,
NY
10019
131 people
favorited this theater
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William what you wrote make perfect sense, I had forgotten about the programming available by using formats 40-43. The options are many as Jeff pointed out. It seems to me the Zeigfeld should be able to run all the different configerations. They may have to add two stage speakers to replace the sub woofers, I would assume are currently in place, should they run the older prints. This would put 7 speakers behind the screen.(assuming they are curently running with 2 subs.
This will, as Saps wrote, make the sound very purty.
I am sure REndres, once he reads this, will explain what is currently going on behind the screen at the Ziegfeld.
gosh, this is fun!
Four Track mag only has those screen placements. In 70MM the Dolby CP-200 you program the format and the processor depending on how it’s set-up will send the information to the right speakers. That’s when your dealing with the older sound mixes (format 40,41) of older prints. Like the Todd-AO format, Dolby format 40 standard 6-Track with magnetic filters and no noise reduction. Dolby format 41, Wide range 6-Track with Dolby A type noise reduction. In those two formats it uses the full five stage speakers for the panning of sound across the stage. (as in the old Roadshow movies) The format 42 & 43 uses only 3 for general sound info and the 2 subs.
All this technical talk is Greek to me, but the sounds sure are purty comin' out of them speakers.
At the moment an old Smart SR300, upgrading to a Smart Mod IV very soon (which is the one I’m referring to in this conversation but am not actually using yet). My mag is only 35mm 4 track, so it’s just three front, one rear. Same for optical.
Jeff S
What type of processor are you running?
It all depends whats on the stage behind the screen. The old Todd-AO format had five wide range speakers there (Altec A-4s). Today’s format Dolby 43 (Baby Boom with split surrounds) as stated above uses tracks 1,3,5 as standard Dolby mix (Stage) and 2 & 4 for sub info and 6 for surrounds. The Todd-AO used tracks 1,2,3,4,5 for stage info and track 6 for surrounds.
Most theatres have the three channels plus subs behind the stage, which would be fine for the format 42 & 43 presentations. The current Dolby processors (CP-500/CP-650) support formats 43. The old Dolby processor CP-200 could had all the 70MM formats (Format 40,41,42,43,44 etc..). The earlier 70MM sound mixes used formats 40,41. The big question is as vito posted how is the Ziegfeld configured? You have to ask that question because some theatre in the past played many early sound mixes with no problems. But over time the theatre sound standard has changed and older theatres have replaced the full 5 screen speakers to the 3 speaker plus subs version. Theatres that have added THX speaker walls are equipped only have three screen speakers plus subs.
Vito, actually the 6 magnetic channels on my processor basically go straight through the unit to the 6 line outputs when in “MAG” mode. So basically they can do whatever you want and how you place your speakers and what’s on the channels is up to you. The processor isn’t making any decisions for them, only running them through the master stereo fader and out to the amps.
I don’t know the Ziegfeld’s configuration.
Jeff, that would be correct, the extra channels refer to the old left center/right center channels which were eliminted.
One of those channels is used as a sub woofer channel which feeds a mono boom track to sub woofers, usually located behind the screen between the center and left/right speakers. The other creates stereo surrounds. At least that’s the way it was when I retired.
So how is the Ziegfeld configured?
Vito, my cinema processor refers to the 6 70mm tracks as: Left, Left Extra, Center, Right Extra, Right, Surround (and sub as a pseudo 7th). I would think the “extra” channels go on the side walls, spaced between the front speakers, and the single surround channel on the back wall.
As an added note, I realise most of the 70mm prints will probably carry DTS tracks but if the theatre is to play any of the original prints in 70 mag sound, reel-to-reel of course, they may have to replace some speakers.
Perhaps Craig knows more of this.
A few thoughts about 6 track sound, as many of know originally the
6 tracks were:
left
left center
center
right center
right
surround
In later years the left center and right center tracks were combined onto one track and fed as a mono boom track to two sub-woofers, which replaced the left center and right center speakers.
The extra track freed up by this was made into a second surround track creating stereo surrounds.
So the question is, did the Zeigfeld replace the left center and right center speakers with sub woofers, and if so what would happen with the older mag tracks that still carry the original 6 track configeration?
REndres, I would appreciate your thoughts on this.
My mistake it was 6 channel Stereo sound in “Hawaii”’s roadshow release.
Forrest136: I’d say the Ziegfeld’s screen is quite big enough for an impressive 70mm presentation, especially if you sit in the front half of the theater. I know some people here don’t agree with that, but I’ve had some fantastic 70mm experiences there over the years (“2001”, “Close Encounters”, “Lawrence of Arabia”, “Vertigo”, “That’s Entertainment”, “Gandhi”, “My Fair Lady”, “Apocalypse Now”).
And I agree with you about “Hawaii” – an excellent movie that’s sadly underrated. Coming in at the end of the religious epic cycle, it was really Hollywood’s first (and only?) ANTI-religious epic.
I think it was? Anyway the presentation was unbelievable at Boston’s Gary Theatre!
70mm AND 8-track stereo…somebody better rush over and tell Marty Hart his widescreen museum site is missing something :)
“Hawaii” was presented in a spectacular 70mm print and 8 track stereo sound as a Roadshow engagement . It is a visually wnderful movie to see on a big screen along with entrance music and exit music, with a wonderful score by Elmer Bernstein.
>>…and I didn’t think UA had any domestic 70mm prints of “Hawaii” released.<<
I run a little blog dedicated to old movie theaters in San Diego, and “Hawaii” definitely played in 70mm at the San Diego Cinerama (sadly gone now).
I’ve never been to New York. A print of Porgy and Bess might get me there…
And if you really wanted me there, hunt down a 70 mm Empire Strikes Back.
Is there a scrren large enough to show a true 70 mm print in NYC?
Jeff, remember The Zeigfeld can run reel to reel If they had some one that knows what they are doing.
Most of the newly restored 70 MM prints, such as “Cleopatra”, are in DTS. I could be wrong, but the more recent prints of “Baraka” and “2001” are 6-track mag.
JSA
All this excitement about 70mm prints, which will be shown on the Ziegfeld’s regular screen.
…and I didn’t think UA had any domestic 70mm prints of “Hawaii” released.
Yes, LA has all the 70MM fun. The select 70MM houses that get these special prints run reel-to-reel. They also have a great track recond with the studios on how they handle their special prints. The Ziegfeld does have magnetic capabilities. One problem with theatre chains is why should they invest in equipment to run 70MM prints, when the studio do not release them as regular releases. In the last few years many of the area theatres have removed their 70MM equipment.
Any print of BYE BYE BIRDIE would be fun!
70 mm prints of “Star!” , “Sweet Charity” and “Bye Bye Birdie” would be fun! Also “Hawaii” would be fantastic!