I was going to make an “Old projectionists…” type of joke, but then I stopped myself out of respect for you guys. I too have fond, fond memories of the projectionist that worked at my grandfather’s theater for 40 years. A true loaner, but a really great, friendly guy. Both my mother and myself were “kids growing up” in his booth, and the ONLY time I ever saw him get mad was the time I pulled a chain and all the nitrate shutters slammed closed during a show! Well, you can’t blame him. His arc light went out, and we never knew what happened to him. Mom and I still think of him.
The mag strips are not really that narrow. The three front tracks are about 1/8", the surround is about 1/16". The tone was used to cue the rear sound system to come on, so when you heard it come on, that’s when sound would emanate form the rear, with the tone filtered out, using the proper equipment. The film is moving at 18 inches per second, so that’s a pretty good speed for magnetic tape. I’ve got some 40 year old mag prints that sound glorious, lots of nice high frequencies, and really great separation.
Some older magnetic films tends to develop a “twisty” condition, it tends to precede vinegar syndrome. This could have been what was causing the focus flutter some have reported, just a guess.
Those that have never seen what a piece of magnetic 35mm film looks like, are welcome to click the link below:
Vito, I had to buy an old CinemaScope cement splicer on eBay to make repairs to my ancient mag prints. My tape splicers will damage the sprocket holes as you say.
Yes, the tracks are subject to damage from magnetized surfaces, fields from motors and transformers, etc. I put a special piece of magnetic shielding (mu-metal) between my motor and where the film runs past it to try to prevent any further degradation to the track. I also demagnetize the film path and heads occasionally, and especially before running a mag print.
Hopefully that wonderful aroma isn’t vinegar syndrome. I lost one really one-of-a-kind magnetic print to VS.
Vito, where have you worked over the years? I was never a projectionist, only a collector. I got this bug from my Grandfather who did run a movie theater and I spent many summers growing up in the booth.
For the benefit of the technical and projectionist fellows out there, the magnetic preamp I use at home was made by Smart. It’s a 1 piece rack mounted, 1U high panel with self contained preamplifiers (basically 4 opamps) all one one circuit card. The SMP435 had no tone filter, the SMP430 before it, did.
Vito: My preamp at home doesn’t have the filter. It was designed and built after the era when the tone system was used. The model built prior to mine did have the filter, with jumpers to enable or disable it. Consequently, when I run certain mag films, I have to keep the surround speaker off.
Unless you have a notch filter or low pass filter on the 4th magnetic channel, you’ll hear the 12 kilohertz tone that was used to trigger the surround amplifiers to come on. In this case, it’s best to just keep the surround channel off. Depending on how old the print is, and if the track has been attenuated from exposure to stray magnetic fields, this tone may be very weak, or quite loud.
Perhaps for your show tonight, they’ll keep the surrounds turned off.
“(that is if you mean that people -couldn’t- care less)”
That is what I meant. And you are also RIGHT ON with “Audiences don’t care because they have been given nothing to care about.”
However, I still think that in this day and age, they still would not care even if presented properly. Their cell phone/ blackberry/iPhone/iPod/text messenger is more important to them.
Vito, keep in mind that except for a select group of us here that know what a “proper presentation” is, the audience of today could care less. So, it’s not a lost art, it’s a lost interest. The audience of today is expecting to walk into a auditorium and hear elevator music, or a DJ type presentation with dirty, out of focus, or light faded still slides dimly hitting the wide open screen, most times not even filling it to the masking. The audience of today also ignores all that preshow crap on the screen anyway.
“How about Paramount? They’re logo was cool looking when Vistavision came along”
Paramount’s VistaVision logo is #2 on my list. Still like the Fox Scope opening better. Just love the music.
I once had in my film collection a 35mm 4 track magnetic Fox Scope opening and fanfare. Unfortunately it has become “lost”. Don’t know if I sold it years ago or it’s hiding in the house somewhere. Bill, do you remember it? It was on the same reel as the magnetic credits from West Side Story.
Justin is absolutely correct, it was on day 1 of Star Wars, when I heard that music come from the screen, I was in shock to hear it again! It’s great that it’s being reused on current Fox titles, but it’s been re-recorded by a different orchestra and is not the original music. It is still however Alfred Newman’s creation.
Note to those that may comment on what I previously said. I am only referring to the 20th Century Fox CinemaScope Logo, not any other studio openings. I just happen to like that particular logo (it’s my personal fav), and was responding to the ‘special’ instructions in Fox’s own manual.
“The curtain is to be opened very slowly and in such a manner that when the title of the feature appears on the screen it is just uncovered. The travelling curtain should continue at the same speed until it is completely opened.”
Hey Bob, I respectfully disagree with that (I know you didn’t write it)! I prefer to see the 20th Century Fox CinemaScope Logo and extended musical Fanfare on the screen, and not on the curtain.
This is the biggest complaint I have about the Ziegfeld, the inconvenient show times. Not just this engagement, but many of the others. They are giving no regard or consideration for “out of towners” who might like to see this.
“The film to be shown is an original road show print, with overture, intermission music and exit music. It is the only known complete print of the film in the United States.”
At the moment an old Smart SR300, upgrading to a Smart Mod IV very soon (which is the one I’m referring to in this conversation but am not actually using yet). My mag is only 35mm 4 track, so it’s just three front, one rear. Same for optical.
Vito, actually the 6 magnetic channels on my processor basically go straight through the unit to the 6 line outputs when in “MAG” mode. So basically they can do whatever you want and how you place your speakers and what’s on the channels is up to you. The processor isn’t making any decisions for them, only running them through the master stereo fader and out to the amps.
Vito, my cinema processor refers to the 6 70mm tracks as: Left, Left Extra, Center, Right Extra, Right, Surround (and sub as a pseudo 7th). I would think the “extra” channels go on the side walls, spaced between the front speakers, and the single surround channel on the back wall.
Are all of these new prints in 70mm using DTS sound, or are there still existing prints floating around that are magnetic? I don’t believe the Ziegfeld has magnetic capabilities, and I think the DTS is only on the one projector that uses the platter. It seems the Ziegfeld would have to make some commitments to new equipment if they want to get off the 70mm platter.
I think that’s why LA has “all the 70mm fun”, their 70mm houses run reel-to-reel.
A 70mm print of Mad World would bring me into the city! But you have to show it on a weekend evening (Fri or Sat) for it to be convenient to get to.
The Claremont in Montclair is showing Mad World in a few weeks, but it’s a 35mm print, and probably on a small screen. I’d love to see this on the Ziegfeld’s screen with a large audience!
“I miss the old noisy rectifiers, platters and projectors. The stories of past adventures, problems, drama. Sitting for hours with my father in the original lobby watching people. Oh well.. its gone but not forgotten.”
Photoman: I also grew up at a theater. My grandfather ran a Summer operation at Rockaway Beach, Queens for 40 years. My mom grew up at that theater, and so did I. Both my mom and myself grew up with the same projectionist. The Simplex Supers ran for 40+ years in that booth with carbons behind them. I remember the noise, the Tungar rectifiers, the hand rewinding of reels, the heat in the booth on hot summer nights, changeovers, and so on. I also remember when I pulled on a chain and all the window shutters came crashing down during a show! It too is gone, but it certainly isn’t forgotten. A little piece of it lives on in my basement.
I was going to make an “Old projectionists…” type of joke, but then I stopped myself out of respect for you guys. I too have fond, fond memories of the projectionist that worked at my grandfather’s theater for 40 years. A true loaner, but a really great, friendly guy. Both my mother and myself were “kids growing up” in his booth, and the ONLY time I ever saw him get mad was the time I pulled a chain and all the nitrate shutters slammed closed during a show! Well, you can’t blame him. His arc light went out, and we never knew what happened to him. Mom and I still think of him.
The mag strips are not really that narrow. The three front tracks are about 1/8", the surround is about 1/16". The tone was used to cue the rear sound system to come on, so when you heard it come on, that’s when sound would emanate form the rear, with the tone filtered out, using the proper equipment. The film is moving at 18 inches per second, so that’s a pretty good speed for magnetic tape. I’ve got some 40 year old mag prints that sound glorious, lots of nice high frequencies, and really great separation.
Some older magnetic films tends to develop a “twisty” condition, it tends to precede vinegar syndrome. This could have been what was causing the focus flutter some have reported, just a guess.
Those that have never seen what a piece of magnetic 35mm film looks like, are welcome to click the link below:
View link
Vito, I had to buy an old CinemaScope cement splicer on eBay to make repairs to my ancient mag prints. My tape splicers will damage the sprocket holes as you say.
Yes, the tracks are subject to damage from magnetized surfaces, fields from motors and transformers, etc. I put a special piece of magnetic shielding (mu-metal) between my motor and where the film runs past it to try to prevent any further degradation to the track. I also demagnetize the film path and heads occasionally, and especially before running a mag print.
Hopefully that wonderful aroma isn’t vinegar syndrome. I lost one really one-of-a-kind magnetic print to VS.
Vito, where have you worked over the years? I was never a projectionist, only a collector. I got this bug from my Grandfather who did run a movie theater and I spent many summers growing up in the booth.
“It can rip right down the middle of the frame.”
Oh so true. I’ve had it happen.
Pete, take it from me. It’s fine. Your showmanship is top notch. You have nothing to apologize for!
Bob, Bill: See! Other’s designed their rooms with a panic button too! :)
For the benefit of the technical and projectionist fellows out there, the magnetic preamp I use at home was made by Smart. It’s a 1 piece rack mounted, 1U high panel with self contained preamplifiers (basically 4 opamps) all one one circuit card. The SMP435 had no tone filter, the SMP430 before it, did.
Ditto: Downgraded? What a joke.
Vito: My preamp at home doesn’t have the filter. It was designed and built after the era when the tone system was used. The model built prior to mine did have the filter, with jumpers to enable or disable it. Consequently, when I run certain mag films, I have to keep the surround speaker off.
Unless you have a notch filter or low pass filter on the 4th magnetic channel, you’ll hear the 12 kilohertz tone that was used to trigger the surround amplifiers to come on. In this case, it’s best to just keep the surround channel off. Depending on how old the print is, and if the track has been attenuated from exposure to stray magnetic fields, this tone may be very weak, or quite loud.
Perhaps for your show tonight, they’ll keep the surrounds turned off.
“(that is if you mean that people -couldn’t- care less)”
That is what I meant. And you are also RIGHT ON with “Audiences don’t care because they have been given nothing to care about.”
However, I still think that in this day and age, they still would not care even if presented properly. Their cell phone/ blackberry/iPhone/iPod/text messenger is more important to them.
Vito, keep in mind that except for a select group of us here that know what a “proper presentation” is, the audience of today could care less. So, it’s not a lost art, it’s a lost interest. The audience of today is expecting to walk into a auditorium and hear elevator music, or a DJ type presentation with dirty, out of focus, or light faded still slides dimly hitting the wide open screen, most times not even filling it to the masking. The audience of today also ignores all that preshow crap on the screen anyway.
“How about Paramount? They’re logo was cool looking when Vistavision came along”
Paramount’s VistaVision logo is #2 on my list. Still like the Fox Scope opening better. Just love the music.
I once had in my film collection a 35mm 4 track magnetic Fox Scope opening and fanfare. Unfortunately it has become “lost”. Don’t know if I sold it years ago or it’s hiding in the house somewhere. Bill, do you remember it? It was on the same reel as the magnetic credits from West Side Story.
Justin is absolutely correct, it was on day 1 of Star Wars, when I heard that music come from the screen, I was in shock to hear it again! It’s great that it’s being reused on current Fox titles, but it’s been re-recorded by a different orchestra and is not the original music. It is still however Alfred Newman’s creation.
Note to those that may comment on what I previously said. I am only referring to the 20th Century Fox CinemaScope Logo, not any other studio openings. I just happen to like that particular logo (it’s my personal fav), and was responding to the ‘special’ instructions in Fox’s own manual.
“The curtain is to be opened very slowly and in such a manner that when the title of the feature appears on the screen it is just uncovered. The travelling curtain should continue at the same speed until it is completely opened.”
Hey Bob, I respectfully disagree with that (I know you didn’t write it)! I prefer to see the 20th Century Fox CinemaScope Logo and extended musical Fanfare on the screen, and not on the curtain.
This is the biggest complaint I have about the Ziegfeld, the inconvenient show times. Not just this engagement, but many of the others. They are giving no regard or consideration for “out of towners” who might like to see this.
“The film to be shown is an original road show print, with overture, intermission music and exit music. It is the only known complete print of the film in the United States.”
Pete, scary, isn’t it?
At the moment an old Smart SR300, upgrading to a Smart Mod IV very soon (which is the one I’m referring to in this conversation but am not actually using yet). My mag is only 35mm 4 track, so it’s just three front, one rear. Same for optical.
Vito, actually the 6 magnetic channels on my processor basically go straight through the unit to the 6 line outputs when in “MAG” mode. So basically they can do whatever you want and how you place your speakers and what’s on the channels is up to you. The processor isn’t making any decisions for them, only running them through the master stereo fader and out to the amps.
I don’t know the Ziegfeld’s configuration.
Vito, my cinema processor refers to the 6 70mm tracks as: Left, Left Extra, Center, Right Extra, Right, Surround (and sub as a pseudo 7th). I would think the “extra” channels go on the side walls, spaced between the front speakers, and the single surround channel on the back wall.
Any print of BYE BYE BIRDIE would be fun!
Are all of these new prints in 70mm using DTS sound, or are there still existing prints floating around that are magnetic? I don’t believe the Ziegfeld has magnetic capabilities, and I think the DTS is only on the one projector that uses the platter. It seems the Ziegfeld would have to make some commitments to new equipment if they want to get off the 70mm platter.
I think that’s why LA has “all the 70mm fun”, their 70mm houses run reel-to-reel.
Again, MAKE IT HAPPEN!
A 70mm print of Mad World would bring me into the city! But you have to show it on a weekend evening (Fri or Sat) for it to be convenient to get to.
The Claremont in Montclair is showing Mad World in a few weeks, but it’s a 35mm print, and probably on a small screen. I’d love to see this on the Ziegfeld’s screen with a large audience!
Make it happen!
The Lafayette does not have mag capabilities, so it isn’t that.
“I miss the old noisy rectifiers, platters and projectors. The stories of past adventures, problems, drama. Sitting for hours with my father in the original lobby watching people. Oh well.. its gone but not forgotten.”
Photoman: I also grew up at a theater. My grandfather ran a Summer operation at Rockaway Beach, Queens for 40 years. My mom grew up at that theater, and so did I. Both my mom and myself grew up with the same projectionist. The Simplex Supers ran for 40+ years in that booth with carbons behind them. I remember the noise, the Tungar rectifiers, the hand rewinding of reels, the heat in the booth on hot summer nights, changeovers, and so on. I also remember when I pulled on a chain and all the window shutters came crashing down during a show! It too is gone, but it certainly isn’t forgotten. A little piece of it lives on in my basement.