Yes Bill and Don, I was a projectionist in 1969 when Marooned opened at the Ziegfeld, at a time when automation was beginning to creep into our lives. There was a guy at that console telling people how he controlled everything including the projection. The idiot even went so far as to suggest they did not even need anyone in the booth, to which, with much sarcasum, I said “really, can you thread the projectors, control focus, and maintaine the booth from here as well”? I also reminded him and the other patrons that without the projectionist up there there would be no show. No comment came
from Mr. “I control everything”.
mikeeoklandpark, I am sorry to read your first experience with 70mm was “Gone with thw wind” which remains the worst example of 70mm
ever made.I am also sorry you missed out on Cinerama and hope some day you have a chance to experience one of the great inovations in film presentation.
Yankeemike,I would agree with you about 70mm Cinerama, it was just an improved 70mm format at best.I believe the first one I ever played was “Mad Mad World”. Many people thought, gee if only they had waited a while and made all Cinerama films in 70mm it would have avoided a lot of cost with all that Charlie, Baker, Able stuff.
I never thought that way, 3 strip Cinerama was in a class of it’s own and it just would not have been the same, when Mr. Thomas said “This Is Cinerama” and I pushed that button to open the curtain to show that roller coaster on that huge 3 strip screen, well…
it was breathtaking.
Myron, the 3 projector Cinerama process had it’s problems. You mentioned the colors not matching, this was a problem with the carbon arcs not keeping up as they burned in one or more projectors. This diference in the burning point betwen the arc and the projector gate, even if ever so slight, would cause one of the images to be slighty darker or off color. A good projectionist did not allow this to happen. Another projectionist error occured when the images did not match exactly, many problems contributed to that. First of all, the sync marks on the leader had to match on all three projectors and sound reproducer before the show started. Then from time to time there would be a film break, and when the film was repared mistakes were made. For example, a break in the film would require a splice be made, if you lost a couple of frames in the Baker print, for example, you would have to splice in a “slug” of black film to replace the missing footage, so that the three prints remained in sync.The alternative would be to remove the missing footage from the other two prints as well as the sound print, this to my knowledge was never done. In other words a film break in Cinerama was a NIGHTMARE. We had the same problem with two projector 3-D projection and it was handled the same way. I strangly miss those days. sigh
Longislandmovies, When I wrote about the public’s lack of interest in DLP, I meant the theatre owners have little to gain here and therefore it will have to be up to thr studios to fit most of the bill to install the equipment. I suppose it’s possible some day it will all work out and we will see the end of film in the theatres but I for one do not believe that will ever happen. We will more likely see a shared film and digital presentation for many many more years.
The equipment installed in my theatres is run by a computor with the media (called platter) loaded on to the hard drive. So you might have one or two movies loaded as well as an array of trailers, both for upcoming movies and house specials, such as advertisements, which you would click on in order to show them. The “script” which contains the info you have programmed is them run each time you start the show. The movie is projected thru a lens either flat or anamorphic by means of the same type of Xenon light source, approx. 6000 watts, as film. I have not seen the system which is transmitted thru satellite as yet, I am not sure if that is being used yet.The entire operation is run by computor.
I would have to agree with RCDTJ, Digital projection may grow some, but it will be a long time, if ever, before it replaces film completly. Digital is flat and dull and yes it does have problems with breakdowns, and as I mentioned in another thread, the public just does not care about it.Automation and platters was the reason 25 years ago I switched from projection to management. I can still dable in the booth if I care to, but it is so boring now without lights, curtains and changeovers. I miss “putting on a show” The guys at the Ziegfeld have a platter which has to be, after the Maytag repair man, the worlds most boring job. Threading a projector once every two hours or so has to be dull. Even worse is digital, with nothing to do but babysit the thing.
Yes, only Able projector was intact when I worked there, Baker and Charlie had been stripped and fitted with standard 35/70mm parts.
Only the name CINERAMA remained on the glass doors. The 7 track magnetic sound reproducer was also intact, as well the interlock control panel for the three projectors and sound reproducer.
DLP may have a place in cinema today but I want no part of it. When I go to the movies I want to see a 35/70mm motion picture film projected. I will admit film does show signs of wear like scatches and focus drifts but DLP has it’s flaws as well. In some of the theatres I am connected with we have DLP projection, and in a most cases a multipex theatre will be a showing a movie in DLP as well as a film version I have watched both DPL and film versions of the same movie and much prefer the film. As a matter of fact the theatre going public does not know or care about DLP. I remember when “Jurrassic Park” was released in DTS. In every location where a multiplex had two or more prints, it was the theatre showing the film in DTS that was always sold out. The public wanted the big sound. That is not the case with DLP, mainly because the public seems to see little or no advantage to movies projected that way. CConnolly hit the nail on the head with respect to cost, since there seems to be no real advantage for the theatre owners to install the very expensive equipment, it should be the studios who will have to pay at least a part of the expense. The studios of course save a ton of money on film costs and shipping and have the most to gain. By the way, silver screens are only installed today for 3-D engagements and IMAX.
Yup Simon, how well I remember those prices. During the 50s and 60s We went to every new show. New movies would normally open on a Thursday and we would get there before 6 for the matinee price of, as you mentioned, about $.90. Seats wee unreserved so you could sit anywhere you liked. Once inside we would head down to the front row of the orch, to watch the stage show, then rush up to the 3rd mezz for the movie, and sometimes head down to the front row of the 1st mezz to see the stage show again. As to those awfull speakers, I certainly agree they are an eyesore. The smaller ones hanging on the side walls and along the back walls are course for Dolby surround when ever a movie is shown, but I think they over did that, Seems to be an awfull lot of them. But at least they lok a bit better now, after the restoration, when a gold fabric was put on them.
Did they actually use the curtain much during the Christmas show? That beautifull curtain just sems to hang there much of the time these days and never move.
Makes sense Charles, since it was about that time The Dome started gearing up for three strip again. Glad they made use of that equipment which collected dust for so many years.
I should also mention, Consolidated came to their senses and played “Empire” and “Jedi” in 70mm at the Cinerama. As a matter of fact 70mm came back in a big way during the early 80s with 70mm prints playing at the Cinerama, Waikiki #1 and #2, and Royal theatres Royal in Waikiki. Incidently, since Waikiki #1 did not have a Dolby processor, Universal made a special 70mm print of “ET” without Dolby encoding for that theatre. It was ther first movie to be loaded on the newly installed platter film transport system. A platter was installed because it was a one man booth and having to make changeovers running 70mm on both sides became a problem. Normally the 35mm prints were run off 6k reels holding about three 2k reels of film spliced together for about an an hour of film. 70mm reels could only hold one reel (18-20 mins) so one side and eventually both sides were platter converted. Soon,
Waikiki #3 also had a platter installed making it possible for one projectionist to run all three theatres.
Charles, Was the equipment moved after the theatre closed in Hawaii?I worked as a projectionist at the Hawaii Cinerama from 1972 thru 1982. The complete Cinerama projector in Able booth was still there, as was the magnetic 7 track sound reproducer in Baker booth. The projector heads from Baker and Charly had ben retro-fitted with standard 35mm projector parts and installed in Charly booth were they served as the two 35/70 projectors untill a platter was installed in late 1980s. The two projectors in Baker booth still had the words “Cinerama” on the glass doors. I ran the single strip 70mm version of “This is Cinerama” there in 1972. By the way, manwithnoname, you did not miss much, we showed “Star Wars” in 35mm Dolby optical stereo. The movie played day and date with the Kapiolani were it showed in 35mm with mono sound. Yikes! Another sore spot for me was, only the 70mm sound head clusters were installed, so the Cinerama never played 35mm four track prints. We would receive several 35mm magnetic/optical prints over the years and had to play them optical.
OOk now you guys have opened a wound, lol. I worked as a relief projectionist at Hicksville North and South. As veyoung mentioned we presented Grand Prix in 70mm Cinerama on the South side which was
the only house with two Century JJ 70mm projectors. The North had two 35mm Simplex XL projectors. Both sides had Ashcraft Super Core Lite Carbon lamp houses burning about 135 amps. The theatres were
rather nice, simple but not your standard twin boxes we saw later.
Both had full traveler screen curtains and working masking.
Then that dreadful day in November 1986. the theatre was cut up into six horrible theatres. North and South were each cut up into three. A wall was placed down the middle cutting each theatre in half, creating theatres 1-2-3-4 Then a portion of the rear of each auditorium and a part of the lobby was used for theatres 5 & 6. The last two theatres were very small. One seating only 75 people. A tiny little projection booth was placed in the rear of both 5 & 6
with a small Christie platter and a Christie almost portable 35mm projector. Oh yes, and a POWERFULL 50 watt sound system WOW!
The original booth was left intact for theatres 1 thru 4 with the two projectors moved apart and fitted with a platter. Although both sides of the old south theatre had 70mm projectors, only one side had the six track sound system. I remember running “Silverado” and one of the “Star Trek IV” amoung others. Buy the way Robert, yes it was a maze, or should we say mess.
Robert, Veyoung has the right idea. I could be done, non-D-150 70mm could be projected using less than the full screen even though technically with D-150’s lens they could have filled the screen.
A couple of problems, the lenses were never actually purchased but leased. I never saw a pair of lenses in the booth. I understand the lenses were eventually made available for sale but by that time UA had no interest in buying them. Also the screen would have to be a low-gain matt surface with a low scatter coating to help keep cross reflections and loss of contrast to a minimum.
As to the “curtain runners” during “Sound of Music”. I never heard that story. Perhaps some theatre manager thought it would be a cute idea and did it on his/her shift bit I ran that movie and never saw it happen.
It seemed strange to me that in all the years I spent in both the Syosset and D-150 I had never heard of Cinerama being presented at Syosset. After reading all the threads regarding this, I phoned a few old timers who did in fact remember Cinerama at Syosset. My time at these locations was post 3 strip Cinerama. I only presented the 70mm version. I was there when the Syosset was carved into three, it was a sad time, and now even sader,they are both gone.
The Christmas show is again featuring the 3-D ride. I wondered if anyone knows what method of projection is being used. I know
IMAX 3-D is projected with two (left eye, right eye) 70mm prints.
It is oustanding.
An usher should have found your seat. Perhaps some miscommunication within the usher staff occured. As to cutting the movie, that would not be something that would be done, the person you saw coming into the theatre is required to do so by management. A National Amusement policy requires an usher/manager to check every auditorium during every show to check temperature and sight and sound quality, as well as all rest rooms to check for paper products and clean if needed.
A punch card indicating the check was completed must then be turned into management at the end of every shift.
Warren, The Palace will open the musical “All Shook Up” on
March 24 2005 with previews beginning on February 20, 2005
In the meanwhile, Vanessa Williams and Linda Elder have scheduled concerts in December. Wouldn’t it be fun to use the some of the dark time till Jan 20 with vaudeville shows and a movie? like the ole days. Yeah … that I’ll happen.
Jim, thanks for that link. It is exactally what I was looking for and more. I will be spending many more happy hours researching all the links that page took me to. I had forgotten many of the wonderful neon signs that graced Times Square, it was a wonderful reminder. It also took me back to the days of the Automat were one could have a complete dinner for less than a buck
Back in the 50s I worked at 52th and 10th but I would take the subway every morning to 42nd St. and walk to 52nd so I could see all those wonderful marquees on 42nd between B'way/7th Ave and 8th. I would start by having coffee across from the Paramount. Some times I would come home the same way walking down B'way, starting with the Rivoli on one side and The Capital on the other, down to the Times Square subway station, passing all those magnificent theatres along the way.I can’t stand to see 42nd street now with all those theatres gone. I cherish those photos of the pre 70s Times Square if anyone knows were to find some.
What wonderful threads regarding the movies we would all love to see at Loew’s Jersey. There is one horror film no one mentioned for Halloween, “The Thing” made in 1951 by Howard Hawks which still gives me chills. As for “White Christmas” I think I would walk the 30-40 miles from home to the theatre to see that film in all it’s original beauty. I assume as soon as the bookings are ready we will all know what films are coming up.
Yes Bill and Don, I was a projectionist in 1969 when Marooned opened at the Ziegfeld, at a time when automation was beginning to creep into our lives. There was a guy at that console telling people how he controlled everything including the projection. The idiot even went so far as to suggest they did not even need anyone in the booth, to which, with much sarcasum, I said “really, can you thread the projectors, control focus, and maintaine the booth from here as well”? I also reminded him and the other patrons that without the projectionist up there there would be no show. No comment came
from Mr. “I control everything”.
mikeeoklandpark, I am sorry to read your first experience with 70mm was “Gone with thw wind” which remains the worst example of 70mm
ever made.I am also sorry you missed out on Cinerama and hope some day you have a chance to experience one of the great inovations in film presentation.
Yankeemike,I would agree with you about 70mm Cinerama, it was just an improved 70mm format at best.I believe the first one I ever played was “Mad Mad World”. Many people thought, gee if only they had waited a while and made all Cinerama films in 70mm it would have avoided a lot of cost with all that Charlie, Baker, Able stuff.
I never thought that way, 3 strip Cinerama was in a class of it’s own and it just would not have been the same, when Mr. Thomas said “This Is Cinerama” and I pushed that button to open the curtain to show that roller coaster on that huge 3 strip screen, well…
it was breathtaking.
Myron, the 3 projector Cinerama process had it’s problems. You mentioned the colors not matching, this was a problem with the carbon arcs not keeping up as they burned in one or more projectors. This diference in the burning point betwen the arc and the projector gate, even if ever so slight, would cause one of the images to be slighty darker or off color. A good projectionist did not allow this to happen. Another projectionist error occured when the images did not match exactly, many problems contributed to that. First of all, the sync marks on the leader had to match on all three projectors and sound reproducer before the show started. Then from time to time there would be a film break, and when the film was repared mistakes were made. For example, a break in the film would require a splice be made, if you lost a couple of frames in the Baker print, for example, you would have to splice in a “slug” of black film to replace the missing footage, so that the three prints remained in sync.The alternative would be to remove the missing footage from the other two prints as well as the sound print, this to my knowledge was never done. In other words a film break in Cinerama was a NIGHTMARE. We had the same problem with two projector 3-D projection and it was handled the same way. I strangly miss those days. sigh
Yes Bill, but wouldn’t we all just love to go back in time and see the grand curtain open with the Fox fanfare just one more time.
Longislandmovies, When I wrote about the public’s lack of interest in DLP, I meant the theatre owners have little to gain here and therefore it will have to be up to thr studios to fit most of the bill to install the equipment. I suppose it’s possible some day it will all work out and we will see the end of film in the theatres but I for one do not believe that will ever happen. We will more likely see a shared film and digital presentation for many many more years.
The equipment installed in my theatres is run by a computor with the media (called platter) loaded on to the hard drive. So you might have one or two movies loaded as well as an array of trailers, both for upcoming movies and house specials, such as advertisements, which you would click on in order to show them. The “script” which contains the info you have programmed is them run each time you start the show. The movie is projected thru a lens either flat or anamorphic by means of the same type of Xenon light source, approx. 6000 watts, as film. I have not seen the system which is transmitted thru satellite as yet, I am not sure if that is being used yet.The entire operation is run by computor.
I would have to agree with RCDTJ, Digital projection may grow some, but it will be a long time, if ever, before it replaces film completly. Digital is flat and dull and yes it does have problems with breakdowns, and as I mentioned in another thread, the public just does not care about it.Automation and platters was the reason 25 years ago I switched from projection to management. I can still dable in the booth if I care to, but it is so boring now without lights, curtains and changeovers. I miss “putting on a show” The guys at the Ziegfeld have a platter which has to be, after the Maytag repair man, the worlds most boring job. Threading a projector once every two hours or so has to be dull. Even worse is digital, with nothing to do but babysit the thing.
Yes, only Able projector was intact when I worked there, Baker and Charlie had been stripped and fitted with standard 35/70mm parts.
Only the name CINERAMA remained on the glass doors. The 7 track magnetic sound reproducer was also intact, as well the interlock control panel for the three projectors and sound reproducer.
DLP may have a place in cinema today but I want no part of it. When I go to the movies I want to see a 35/70mm motion picture film projected. I will admit film does show signs of wear like scatches and focus drifts but DLP has it’s flaws as well. In some of the theatres I am connected with we have DLP projection, and in a most cases a multipex theatre will be a showing a movie in DLP as well as a film version I have watched both DPL and film versions of the same movie and much prefer the film. As a matter of fact the theatre going public does not know or care about DLP. I remember when “Jurrassic Park” was released in DTS. In every location where a multiplex had two or more prints, it was the theatre showing the film in DTS that was always sold out. The public wanted the big sound. That is not the case with DLP, mainly because the public seems to see little or no advantage to movies projected that way. CConnolly hit the nail on the head with respect to cost, since there seems to be no real advantage for the theatre owners to install the very expensive equipment, it should be the studios who will have to pay at least a part of the expense. The studios of course save a ton of money on film costs and shipping and have the most to gain. By the way, silver screens are only installed today for 3-D engagements and IMAX.
Digital projection, which had been removed, has been returned to the Ziegfeld. :(
Yup Simon, how well I remember those prices. During the 50s and 60s We went to every new show. New movies would normally open on a Thursday and we would get there before 6 for the matinee price of, as you mentioned, about $.90. Seats wee unreserved so you could sit anywhere you liked. Once inside we would head down to the front row of the orch, to watch the stage show, then rush up to the 3rd mezz for the movie, and sometimes head down to the front row of the 1st mezz to see the stage show again. As to those awfull speakers, I certainly agree they are an eyesore. The smaller ones hanging on the side walls and along the back walls are course for Dolby surround when ever a movie is shown, but I think they over did that, Seems to be an awfull lot of them. But at least they lok a bit better now, after the restoration, when a gold fabric was put on them.
Did they actually use the curtain much during the Christmas show? That beautifull curtain just sems to hang there much of the time these days and never move.
Makes sense Charles, since it was about that time The Dome started gearing up for three strip again. Glad they made use of that equipment which collected dust for so many years.
I should also mention, Consolidated came to their senses and played “Empire” and “Jedi” in 70mm at the Cinerama. As a matter of fact 70mm came back in a big way during the early 80s with 70mm prints playing at the Cinerama, Waikiki #1 and #2, and Royal theatres Royal in Waikiki. Incidently, since Waikiki #1 did not have a Dolby processor, Universal made a special 70mm print of “ET” without Dolby encoding for that theatre. It was ther first movie to be loaded on the newly installed platter film transport system. A platter was installed because it was a one man booth and having to make changeovers running 70mm on both sides became a problem. Normally the 35mm prints were run off 6k reels holding about three 2k reels of film spliced together for about an an hour of film. 70mm reels could only hold one reel (18-20 mins) so one side and eventually both sides were platter converted. Soon,
Waikiki #3 also had a platter installed making it possible for one projectionist to run all three theatres.
Charles, Was the equipment moved after the theatre closed in Hawaii?I worked as a projectionist at the Hawaii Cinerama from 1972 thru 1982. The complete Cinerama projector in Able booth was still there, as was the magnetic 7 track sound reproducer in Baker booth. The projector heads from Baker and Charly had ben retro-fitted with standard 35mm projector parts and installed in Charly booth were they served as the two 35/70 projectors untill a platter was installed in late 1980s. The two projectors in Baker booth still had the words “Cinerama” on the glass doors. I ran the single strip 70mm version of “This is Cinerama” there in 1972. By the way, manwithnoname, you did not miss much, we showed “Star Wars” in 35mm Dolby optical stereo. The movie played day and date with the Kapiolani were it showed in 35mm with mono sound. Yikes! Another sore spot for me was, only the 70mm sound head clusters were installed, so the Cinerama never played 35mm four track prints. We would receive several 35mm magnetic/optical prints over the years and had to play them optical.
OOk now you guys have opened a wound, lol. I worked as a relief projectionist at Hicksville North and South. As veyoung mentioned we presented Grand Prix in 70mm Cinerama on the South side which was
the only house with two Century JJ 70mm projectors. The North had two 35mm Simplex XL projectors. Both sides had Ashcraft Super Core Lite Carbon lamp houses burning about 135 amps. The theatres were
rather nice, simple but not your standard twin boxes we saw later.
Both had full traveler screen curtains and working masking.
Then that dreadful day in November 1986. the theatre was cut up into six horrible theatres. North and South were each cut up into three. A wall was placed down the middle cutting each theatre in half, creating theatres 1-2-3-4 Then a portion of the rear of each auditorium and a part of the lobby was used for theatres 5 & 6. The last two theatres were very small. One seating only 75 people. A tiny little projection booth was placed in the rear of both 5 & 6
with a small Christie platter and a Christie almost portable 35mm projector. Oh yes, and a POWERFULL 50 watt sound system WOW!
The original booth was left intact for theatres 1 thru 4 with the two projectors moved apart and fitted with a platter. Although both sides of the old south theatre had 70mm projectors, only one side had the six track sound system. I remember running “Silverado” and one of the “Star Trek IV” amoung others. Buy the way Robert, yes it was a maze, or should we say mess.
Robert, Veyoung has the right idea. I could be done, non-D-150 70mm could be projected using less than the full screen even though technically with D-150’s lens they could have filled the screen.
A couple of problems, the lenses were never actually purchased but leased. I never saw a pair of lenses in the booth. I understand the lenses were eventually made available for sale but by that time UA had no interest in buying them. Also the screen would have to be a low-gain matt surface with a low scatter coating to help keep cross reflections and loss of contrast to a minimum.
As to the “curtain runners” during “Sound of Music”. I never heard that story. Perhaps some theatre manager thought it would be a cute idea and did it on his/her shift bit I ran that movie and never saw it happen.
It seemed strange to me that in all the years I spent in both the Syosset and D-150 I had never heard of Cinerama being presented at Syosset. After reading all the threads regarding this, I phoned a few old timers who did in fact remember Cinerama at Syosset. My time at these locations was post 3 strip Cinerama. I only presented the 70mm version. I was there when the Syosset was carved into three, it was a sad time, and now even sader,they are both gone.
The Christmas show is again featuring the 3-D ride. I wondered if anyone knows what method of projection is being used. I know
IMAX 3-D is projected with two (left eye, right eye) 70mm prints.
It is oustanding.
An usher should have found your seat. Perhaps some miscommunication within the usher staff occured. As to cutting the movie, that would not be something that would be done, the person you saw coming into the theatre is required to do so by management. A National Amusement policy requires an usher/manager to check every auditorium during every show to check temperature and sight and sound quality, as well as all rest rooms to check for paper products and clean if needed.
A punch card indicating the check was completed must then be turned into management at the end of every shift.
Warren, The Palace will open the musical “All Shook Up” on
March 24 2005 with previews beginning on February 20, 2005
In the meanwhile, Vanessa Williams and Linda Elder have scheduled concerts in December. Wouldn’t it be fun to use the some of the dark time till Jan 20 with vaudeville shows and a movie? like the ole days. Yeah … that I’ll happen.
Marty, we are all in mourning for these magnificent theatres, the likes of which we will never see again.
Jim, thanks for that link. It is exactally what I was looking for and more. I will be spending many more happy hours researching all the links that page took me to. I had forgotten many of the wonderful neon signs that graced Times Square, it was a wonderful reminder. It also took me back to the days of the Automat were one could have a complete dinner for less than a buck
Back in the 50s I worked at 52th and 10th but I would take the subway every morning to 42nd St. and walk to 52nd so I could see all those wonderful marquees on 42nd between B'way/7th Ave and 8th. I would start by having coffee across from the Paramount. Some times I would come home the same way walking down B'way, starting with the Rivoli on one side and The Capital on the other, down to the Times Square subway station, passing all those magnificent theatres along the way.I can’t stand to see 42nd street now with all those theatres gone. I cherish those photos of the pre 70s Times Square if anyone knows were to find some.
The Rockettes could use a new act as well. Of course, I know this like beating a dead horse but a movie would be nice.
What wonderful threads regarding the movies we would all love to see at Loew’s Jersey. There is one horror film no one mentioned for Halloween, “The Thing” made in 1951 by Howard Hawks which still gives me chills. As for “White Christmas” I think I would walk the 30-40 miles from home to the theatre to see that film in all it’s original beauty. I assume as soon as the bookings are ready we will all know what films are coming up.