I remember the mezzanine lobby from the 70s and at this point there was no oval cutout. Also if one stood by the exit doors in the orchestra which were set back in an alcove and one looked out on the orchestra to the exit doors on the opposite side one had a sense of how vast the orchestra was originally before being reduced for the roadshow era.This was the same for the Warner Cinerama.
I also remember them cutting into the back of the theater to use any backstage space that there was for a camera store on 7th Av. Tearing down the lower billboard panel one could see the advertising for The Trip and Hello Dolly(Boxoffice open Sunday 12 to 8 PM.) They also at this time reduced the size of the upper billboard which had been one of my favorite Times Sqare sights. I would love to see pictures of all the adverts of the films that played there during the 50’s and 60s. The one that seems to show up occasionally is the one for Cleopatra simply bacause of the controversy of Harrison being excluded and then being painted in.
CC I am as obsessed as you. It was one of New York’s great buildings.
Refering to comments above about the size of performers in relation to the size of the house if one reads the Variety reviews of the stage shows in the 30’s even then in an era used to large presentation houses critics complained about the size of the Hall and how distant and small the performers seemed. I remember one review that described the ballet as an army of red corpuscles battling the white.
Also the line from the Rodgers and Hart “At the Roxy Music Hall”-Where the actors seem to be a lot of midgets.
There is no greater disdainer of the Ziegfeld than myself Benjamin but it is all that is left in Manhattan. The very last!!
And I have to say it was better than the National or the Astor Plaza.
Talk about damning with faint praise. If it goes though I won’t be too sorry. A 50 ft screen? Sheesh.
Then you were fortunate that your parents took you to see these movies on vacation. While I remember a few roadshows playing in Asbury as well we never went to the movies first run. Those prices would have been outrageous. We had to wait to see them in the burbs.
I saw Lord Jim at a drive-in in the summer of 65 outside of Asbury though I would have rather seen MFL at the St James or SOM at the Paramount(so what was at the Lyric?.) I wish they had taken me to ee Jim at the State in Manhattan.
Saw Dolly at the St James on a Saturday afternoon in July ‘70. Still a beautiful first run house. Non reserved but prices different for Orch Loge and Balc($3.00 and $3.50 I believe.) The place was deserted.
Mike I was so young in the ‘60s when all these places had their last flicker of glory. I remember the retirees filling the benches on the boardwalk in the evening and now imagine them visiting as young men and women in the 1920’s when the resort was at it’s height. The place to me seemed like Disneyland for adults. I looked forward to visiting on my own when I was old enough and doing everything and visiting everywhere. Little did I know that in the '70s when I would finally have my chance everything would vanish as if it had never even existed.
And think of the magnificent hotels that were torn down as well. Why anybody would want to tear down The Blenheim and the Traymore. It makes me sick to my stomach. At the time I thought the casinos would bring in revenue to restore the city to its former glory. What they did was to destroy the city itself and make it nothing more than a haven for casino owners. Except for people with a compulsion to lose money very quickly why in the world would anyone want to go to there?
Mike you’re killing me with all this negative info on what I thought were these grand cinemas. I remember seeing the Virginia boarded up in ‘76 with porn playing at the Apollo. How sad it all was and I haven’t been to the Boardwalk since. Too hearbreaking. I never knew about the Roxy, the Center or the Hollywood. Maybe it’s just as well…
No curtains? No masking? Shabby, small auditorium, Odd curve to the screen? Here I’m thinking all these years this was the Rivoli of Altantic City, the premiere movie house of the town and I suddenly find it was a dive. Also what theater did MFL play roadshow in ‘65?
I think I walked past the Shore(not on the boardwalk correct?) in the summer of 71 and it was playing The Love Machine.
Does anybody know how much of the auditorium was retained when it was a bowling alley? I remember seeing a photo somewhere of Frankie and Annette at the opening holding a bowling ball.
I’m surprised that a major city like Atlantic City was not showing 70mm at this time. But the films that you mentioned by the time they would have played there would have already proved to be flops(including Dolly in 35mm at the Virgina. Had it been a success it would I assume been shown there in Todd AO.) I assumed the Virgina would play its films like SOM and GWTW in 70mm.
Surely 2001 before it played at the Apollo it played somewhere in 70mm?
I remember in the summer of 68 the Apollo playing films like the Odd Couple and Where Were You When the Lights Went Out. A couple of years later it was showing Shaft and a few after that porn.
Was Funny Girl or Oliver at the Virginia in 69?
Did Atlantic City have other roadshow houses? For instance where did the Todd AO and Cinerama films play? Also where was My Fair Lady when SOM was at the Virginia? I remember as a boy walking by in the summer of ‘68 when GWTW was there. A large sign for Millie stood above the theater which probably had played there the summer before.
I’m disappointed that it was shabby inside. I had always imagined that it was a deluxe roadshow house. In in the summer of 71 Klute played there while window cards announced Song of Norway which I assume had had a very disappointing run.
By the way does anyone know where I could get a list of what Scorscese considers the best widescreen movies? I understand he compiled one. We seem to love the same movies. He has excellent taste.
The Royale has a nice wide proscenium so I think it would have been perfect for the cinemascope Gigi. What I don’t understand is why the film went to the small Sutton and not to the Astor or Capitol or Loew’s State. Anyway what I wouldn’t give to see it on a large wide screen.
I once heard the lyricist Sammy Cahn speaking about seeing Gigi and talking about the legit curtains opening on those splendid opening titles. I guess it was a great movie moment for him.
TCM has a short on widescreen movies pan and scan vs letterboxing featuring the entrance of Jourdan and Caron in Maxims. There isn’t a director or production designer alive today who can do anything half as good. Thank you VM and CB.
Warren, maybe this will help. Back then the woman in Blossoms was a heroine. Today in the movies it is Vera Drake(yeah right she was performing abortions because she was a deeply sympathetic and concerned woman and it didn’t have anything to do with money. Is this a true story or was it made up by one of today’s idiot screenwriters?)
This was a way the screenwriter in ‘41 could broach such a sensitive subject and make his heroine a staunch foe of it. Today the movie would be picketed by the women’s movement.(I’m pro choice by the way but I do think it’s a great line.)
But if you think about it it does. A woman working to give dignity to young mothers without husbands would never say “Good girls don’t have babies."
Speaking about Garson(who was also radiant in black and white-Random Harvest, Pride and Prejudice you name it) I obtained a Music Hall program for Blossoms and there is an article included which discusses her Titian Hair in technicolor.
She was actually crowned at the Music Hall in a ceremony celebrating the success of her films there. I suppose the tiara is gathering dust in Texas somewhere.
I think “bad” is correct(not sure because I read the article 35 years ago and as I’ve said I’ve never seen the film.)Think about it in the context of a woman trying to eliminate the stigma of illegitimate children and unwed mothers. Then it makes perfect sense and would cause a strong reaction from people. It would today as well, though not all of it positive unlike those 6000 people(well the adults anyway) sitting in the Hall in ‘41.
In 1970 Look magazine had a one page article where one of its writers talked about his experiences of going to the Music Hall starting with Swing Time. He recalls that one of the biggest audience responses to a film were the cheers that followed when in Blossoms in the Dust Greer Garson says “Bad girls don’t have babies."
I had no idea what that meant and why people would cheer. I still haven’t seen the film but of course now understand the line. I wonder though today how people would respond to such a declaration.
CC. I was never a fan of the film Oklahoma either. But a friend forced me to go see it when in the late 70’s a Todd AO print was shown at the Penthouse(the balcony of the Warner Cinerama/Strand after twinning.)
I was, as they say, blown away. I thought it was glorious.
I saw it again at the Cinema 1(before twinning.) Again absolutely wonderful.
Had I been around when it was shown at the Rivoli I would have been there every couple of weeks. To have seen it on that curved screen!
Just so you know there are two films of Oklahoma. One filmed for Todd AO and one filmed for Cinemascope. Even Zinnemann thought the Todd AO was much better. I only wish he had done Carousel.
There was always a “slap” at the Music Hall but I don’t remember it being that bad. In fact the Sound of Music sounded great there in ‘75. The organ in the wedding sequence sounded as if it were being played live. Also the revival of Singin in the Rain in '75 used a fake stereo(which I normally hate) extremely well done. I’ve never heard Conrad Salinger’s wonderful arrangements again with such clarity and impact. Canby called this presentation “gilt edged.”
Benjamin I assure you that a full price $7.50 for the orchestra is correct. I bought my Wednesday matinee ticket the Monday after Easter on my way to seeing A New Leaf at at Radio City.
Again remember that $100 is the advertised top price for a musical, but it is not the case. As I noted prices are really $250 to $500 for the center orchestra.
At the Palace I bought an advance ticket for Lauren Bacall in Applause at the box office for a June matinee. The 5th row center on the aisle seat cost $8.00.
Remember at this time the top price for a movie was $3.00. today it is 10.25. A top Broadway ticket was $15.00 for a Saturday night today it is officially(though not in practice)$100. If you do the math the Broadway producers are indulging in daylight robbery to an astounding degree. Why do you think corporations are the producers today. It’s called legalized extortion. But then I must admit nobody is forcing people to buy tickets.
We must be as a society becoming individually and collectively very stupid.
Benjamin I assure you that a full price $7.50 for the orchestra is correct. I bought my Wednesday matinee ticket the Monday after Easter on my way to seeing A New Leaf at at Radio City.
Again remember that $100 is the advertised top price for a musical, but it is not the case. As I noted prices are really $250 to $500 for the center orchestra.
At the Palace I bought an advance ticket for Lauren Bacall in Applause at the box office for a June matinee. The 5th row center on the aisle seat cost $8.00.
Remember at this time the top price for a movie was $3.00. today it is 10.25. A top Broadway ticket was $15.00 for a Saturday night today it is officially(though not in practice)$100. If you do the math the Broadway producers are indulging in daylight robbery to an astounding degree. Why do you think corporations are the producers today. It’s called legalized extortion. But then I must admit nobody is forcing people to buy tickets.
We must be as a society becoming individually and collectively very stupid.
Warren it was interesting seeing your post about 1960. I wasn’t able to go on my own into NY until ‘70. At that point the Roxy might as well have the the Colossus at Rhodes. I believe the Rivoli was playing The Stewardesses in 3D, the Criterion was playing Beyond the Valley of the Dolls and the Thanksgiving film Sherlock Holmes at the Hall crashed and burned after two weeks and they had to rush in the Christmas Show. The axis of the earth must have shifted in those ten years. I don’t think things change culturally so quickly even today.
However the Hall had a weekday morning admission price of $1.75 and a weekday matinee prime seating on Broadway could be had for $8.00.
Follies, the most lavish(and best produced, I still remember the audience in shock) musical I will ever see, had a top full price of $7.50! Today you cannot even get prime seating for $100 the announced top price. You’ve got to spend 3 to 5 times as much. And what you get is a golden oldies revue. Insane.
BOB the way you describe it- breakfast, Rita Hayworth, a trip to the Roxy-this is what I imagine my heaven would be.
I remember the mezzanine lobby from the 70s and at this point there was no oval cutout. Also if one stood by the exit doors in the orchestra which were set back in an alcove and one looked out on the orchestra to the exit doors on the opposite side one had a sense of how vast the orchestra was originally before being reduced for the roadshow era.This was the same for the Warner Cinerama.
I also remember them cutting into the back of the theater to use any backstage space that there was for a camera store on 7th Av. Tearing down the lower billboard panel one could see the advertising for The Trip and Hello Dolly(Boxoffice open Sunday 12 to 8 PM.) They also at this time reduced the size of the upper billboard which had been one of my favorite Times Sqare sights. I would love to see pictures of all the adverts of the films that played there during the 50’s and 60s. The one that seems to show up occasionally is the one for Cleopatra simply bacause of the controversy of Harrison being excluded and then being painted in.
CC I am as obsessed as you. It was one of New York’s great buildings.
Refering to comments above about the size of performers in relation to the size of the house if one reads the Variety reviews of the stage shows in the 30’s even then in an era used to large presentation houses critics complained about the size of the Hall and how distant and small the performers seemed. I remember one review that described the ballet as an army of red corpuscles battling the white.
Also the line from the Rodgers and Hart “At the Roxy Music Hall”-Where the actors seem to be a lot of midgets.
There is no greater disdainer of the Ziegfeld than myself Benjamin but it is all that is left in Manhattan. The very last!!
And I have to say it was better than the National or the Astor Plaza.
Talk about damning with faint praise. If it goes though I won’t be too sorry. A 50 ft screen? Sheesh.
Then you were fortunate that your parents took you to see these movies on vacation. While I remember a few roadshows playing in Asbury as well we never went to the movies first run. Those prices would have been outrageous. We had to wait to see them in the burbs.
I saw Lord Jim at a drive-in in the summer of 65 outside of Asbury though I would have rather seen MFL at the St James or SOM at the Paramount(so what was at the Lyric?.) I wish they had taken me to ee Jim at the State in Manhattan.
Saw Dolly at the St James on a Saturday afternoon in July ‘70. Still a beautiful first run house. Non reserved but prices different for Orch Loge and Balc($3.00 and $3.50 I believe.) The place was deserted.
Mike I was so young in the ‘60s when all these places had their last flicker of glory. I remember the retirees filling the benches on the boardwalk in the evening and now imagine them visiting as young men and women in the 1920’s when the resort was at it’s height. The place to me seemed like Disneyland for adults. I looked forward to visiting on my own when I was old enough and doing everything and visiting everywhere. Little did I know that in the '70s when I would finally have my chance everything would vanish as if it had never even existed.
And think of the magnificent hotels that were torn down as well. Why anybody would want to tear down The Blenheim and the Traymore. It makes me sick to my stomach. At the time I thought the casinos would bring in revenue to restore the city to its former glory. What they did was to destroy the city itself and make it nothing more than a haven for casino owners. Except for people with a compulsion to lose money very quickly why in the world would anyone want to go to there?
Mike you’re killing me with all this negative info on what I thought were these grand cinemas. I remember seeing the Virginia boarded up in ‘76 with porn playing at the Apollo. How sad it all was and I haven’t been to the Boardwalk since. Too hearbreaking. I never knew about the Roxy, the Center or the Hollywood. Maybe it’s just as well…
No curtains? No masking? Shabby, small auditorium, Odd curve to the screen? Here I’m thinking all these years this was the Rivoli of Altantic City, the premiere movie house of the town and I suddenly find it was a dive. Also what theater did MFL play roadshow in ‘65?
I think I walked past the Shore(not on the boardwalk correct?) in the summer of 71 and it was playing The Love Machine.
Does anybody know how much of the auditorium was retained when it was a bowling alley? I remember seeing a photo somewhere of Frankie and Annette at the opening holding a bowling ball.
I’m surprised that a major city like Atlantic City was not showing 70mm at this time. But the films that you mentioned by the time they would have played there would have already proved to be flops(including Dolly in 35mm at the Virgina. Had it been a success it would I assume been shown there in Todd AO.) I assumed the Virgina would play its films like SOM and GWTW in 70mm.
Surely 2001 before it played at the Apollo it played somewhere in 70mm?
I remember in the summer of 68 the Apollo playing films like the Odd Couple and Where Were You When the Lights Went Out. A couple of years later it was showing Shaft and a few after that porn.
Was Funny Girl or Oliver at the Virginia in 69?
Did Atlantic City have other roadshow houses? For instance where did the Todd AO and Cinerama films play? Also where was My Fair Lady when SOM was at the Virginia? I remember as a boy walking by in the summer of ‘68 when GWTW was there. A large sign for Millie stood above the theater which probably had played there the summer before.
I’m disappointed that it was shabby inside. I had always imagined that it was a deluxe roadshow house. In in the summer of 71 Klute played there while window cards announced Song of Norway which I assume had had a very disappointing run.
Boy did performers have energy and discipline then. Today a star performer can’t even make 8 perfs a week on Broadway. Maybe it’s the air.
By the way does anyone know where I could get a list of what Scorscese considers the best widescreen movies? I understand he compiled one. We seem to love the same movies. He has excellent taste.
The Royale has a nice wide proscenium so I think it would have been perfect for the cinemascope Gigi. What I don’t understand is why the film went to the small Sutton and not to the Astor or Capitol or Loew’s State. Anyway what I wouldn’t give to see it on a large wide screen.
I once heard the lyricist Sammy Cahn speaking about seeing Gigi and talking about the legit curtains opening on those splendid opening titles. I guess it was a great movie moment for him.
TCM has a short on widescreen movies pan and scan vs letterboxing featuring the entrance of Jourdan and Caron in Maxims. There isn’t a director or production designer alive today who can do anything half as good. Thank you VM and CB.
Warren, maybe this will help. Back then the woman in Blossoms was a heroine. Today in the movies it is Vera Drake(yeah right she was performing abortions because she was a deeply sympathetic and concerned woman and it didn’t have anything to do with money. Is this a true story or was it made up by one of today’s idiot screenwriters?)
This was a way the screenwriter in ‘41 could broach such a sensitive subject and make his heroine a staunch foe of it. Today the movie would be picketed by the women’s movement.(I’m pro choice by the way but I do think it’s a great line.)
But if you think about it it does. A woman working to give dignity to young mothers without husbands would never say “Good girls don’t have babies."
Speaking about Garson(who was also radiant in black and white-Random Harvest, Pride and Prejudice you name it) I obtained a Music Hall program for Blossoms and there is an article included which discusses her Titian Hair in technicolor.
She was actually crowned at the Music Hall in a ceremony celebrating the success of her films there. I suppose the tiara is gathering dust in Texas somewhere.
I think “bad” is correct(not sure because I read the article 35 years ago and as I’ve said I’ve never seen the film.)Think about it in the context of a woman trying to eliminate the stigma of illegitimate children and unwed mothers. Then it makes perfect sense and would cause a strong reaction from people. It would today as well, though not all of it positive unlike those 6000 people(well the adults anyway) sitting in the Hall in ‘41.
In 1970 Look magazine had a one page article where one of its writers talked about his experiences of going to the Music Hall starting with Swing Time. He recalls that one of the biggest audience responses to a film were the cheers that followed when in Blossoms in the Dust Greer Garson says “Bad girls don’t have babies."
I had no idea what that meant and why people would cheer. I still haven’t seen the film but of course now understand the line. I wonder though today how people would respond to such a declaration.
CC. I was never a fan of the film Oklahoma either. But a friend forced me to go see it when in the late 70’s a Todd AO print was shown at the Penthouse(the balcony of the Warner Cinerama/Strand after twinning.)
I was, as they say, blown away. I thought it was glorious.
I saw it again at the Cinema 1(before twinning.) Again absolutely wonderful.
Had I been around when it was shown at the Rivoli I would have been there every couple of weeks. To have seen it on that curved screen!
Just so you know there are two films of Oklahoma. One filmed for Todd AO and one filmed for Cinemascope. Even Zinnemann thought the Todd AO was much better. I only wish he had done Carousel.
There was always a “slap” at the Music Hall but I don’t remember it being that bad. In fact the Sound of Music sounded great there in ‘75. The organ in the wedding sequence sounded as if it were being played live. Also the revival of Singin in the Rain in '75 used a fake stereo(which I normally hate) extremely well done. I’ve never heard Conrad Salinger’s wonderful arrangements again with such clarity and impact. Canby called this presentation “gilt edged.”
Benjamin I assure you that a full price $7.50 for the orchestra is correct. I bought my Wednesday matinee ticket the Monday after Easter on my way to seeing A New Leaf at at Radio City.
Again remember that $100 is the advertised top price for a musical, but it is not the case. As I noted prices are really $250 to $500 for the center orchestra.
At the Palace I bought an advance ticket for Lauren Bacall in Applause at the box office for a June matinee. The 5th row center on the aisle seat cost $8.00.
Remember at this time the top price for a movie was $3.00. today it is 10.25. A top Broadway ticket was $15.00 for a Saturday night today it is officially(though not in practice)$100. If you do the math the Broadway producers are indulging in daylight robbery to an astounding degree. Why do you think corporations are the producers today. It’s called legalized extortion. But then I must admit nobody is forcing people to buy tickets.
We must be as a society becoming individually and collectively very stupid.
Benjamin I assure you that a full price $7.50 for the orchestra is correct. I bought my Wednesday matinee ticket the Monday after Easter on my way to seeing A New Leaf at at Radio City.
Again remember that $100 is the advertised top price for a musical, but it is not the case. As I noted prices are really $250 to $500 for the center orchestra.
At the Palace I bought an advance ticket for Lauren Bacall in Applause at the box office for a June matinee. The 5th row center on the aisle seat cost $8.00.
Remember at this time the top price for a movie was $3.00. today it is 10.25. A top Broadway ticket was $15.00 for a Saturday night today it is officially(though not in practice)$100. If you do the math the Broadway producers are indulging in daylight robbery to an astounding degree. Why do you think corporations are the producers today. It’s called legalized extortion. But then I must admit nobody is forcing people to buy tickets.
We must be as a society becoming individually and collectively very stupid.
Warren it was interesting seeing your post about 1960. I wasn’t able to go on my own into NY until ‘70. At that point the Roxy might as well have the the Colossus at Rhodes. I believe the Rivoli was playing The Stewardesses in 3D, the Criterion was playing Beyond the Valley of the Dolls and the Thanksgiving film Sherlock Holmes at the Hall crashed and burned after two weeks and they had to rush in the Christmas Show. The axis of the earth must have shifted in those ten years. I don’t think things change culturally so quickly even today.
However the Hall had a weekday morning admission price of $1.75 and a weekday matinee prime seating on Broadway could be had for $8.00.
Follies, the most lavish(and best produced, I still remember the audience in shock) musical I will ever see, had a top full price of $7.50! Today you cannot even get prime seating for $100 the announced top price. You’ve got to spend 3 to 5 times as much. And what you get is a golden oldies revue. Insane.