I does irk me very much that even in a metropolis such as NYC that a use for this magnificent structure (that preserves its integrity) can’t be found. It is a constant battle I go through in my mind every time I see a beautiful theatre like this. One side is the preservationist, but on the other side is that all important business aspect.
It is hard to believe that through time it is the very size and grandeur of these old picture palaces is what is working against it today.
I don’t know if someone is working on something in regards to this theater. I certainly would hope so.
I don’t know the demographics surrounding this particular area. But I am very well aware that a theatre is a business and certain elements must be in place for it to succeed as such. First thing I look at is the parking and mass transit. People have to get to the place and if parking or transit is a problem…then it would make saving an old theatre a very hard proposition. Second issue is the building’s use. Strangely enough, most die hard preservationists overlook this very important detail. It is obvious that something this size wouldn’t work as a movie house any longer. But it could as a live venue. Key things to look for are other competing theatres in the area. Sometimes searching for an alternative use that perserves much of the building’s past could be looked into. As it is, two of the other Wonder Theatres have new life as a church. A different performance venue, such as a dance hall or dinner theatre could be explored. Brooklyn’s proximity to Manhattan and the transit system should support the numbers. But again, without knowing the demographics of the area, it is hard to tell. Many good heads are needed to come together on something like this. It would be a terrible loss if this building just continues to sit and deteriorate.
I just looked at the aerial shot of the theatre. There is quite a bit of parking around it with two large fields. Probably private lots, but if something could be worked out…
But still 3192 seats is a tough order to fill, it is a pretty big place.
Thank you for those pictures. I came across them by accident when I was looking up something on the Valencia.
I am amazed that the Kings does look like it is in very restorable condition and I believe this is the only Loews Wonder Theatre that is not in operation. I know that two are being used as churches and two are being used as rightful theatres.
I didn’t think too much of the Kings, but now that I have seen the inside I am very much hoping this building gets restored too. I saw what they have done with the Loews Paradise and it words alone cannot explain the sheer beauty of that theatre.
I am hoping that someone can put good use to their theatre. Then at least all 5 of the Wonder Theatres would be in operation. I actually was lead to believe the Kings was in worse condition than this, but it isn’t. I hope it will be saved.
Hello guys been a while since I been here, so I have some catching up to do.
Luis V.
I guess we cleared up that above. Yes, I do recommend visiting the Loews Wonder Theatres. There are three more as well, one is in Brooklyn…The Kings (I believe), The 175th st Manhattan, and the Jersey City theater. All are still standing and all except the Brooklyn are still being used. Both the Jersey City and Paradise continue operation as a Theatre. The 175th st Theatre and the Valencia are run by a churches.
Life’s Too Short:
A while back I think I did post a link to a picture here of the Granada with its original Marquee.
Look through it. Email me if you can’t find it, I can’t post a picture here. But I have one with the original Marquee lit at night. It should be in the discussion on the Styx Paradise Theatre album cover I did a while back.
BW Chicago:
That IS a nice aerial shot. In the picture, it would have looked like the Granada had a nice parking lot if it wasn’t for that road wasting all that good space there. To bad the neighborhood soured. To bad the building couldn’t be moved :(. But it was a building worth saving. The Granada is one of my favorite theatre buildings.
If the town would consider a proposition for improving the parking in the downtown area AND the building’s owner can be convinced to sell the building unconditional to it’s use…then I would reconsider. As if you have read my posts above, there are just certain issues that are attached to this building that initially scared me away from it. However, I do believe with some time and money the building can be made into a beautiful live performing arts theatre that could benefit the town.
But I think the larger issue of parking in the area would have to be addressed first. Possibly the erection of a parking garage and/or bus service could assist tremendously. Not only would this benefit a theatre project, but it would help in the development in the downtown area. In order for any commercial operation to work…the people HAVE to find you AND getting to you has to be easy.
As I said above, I do have a few ideas on how to solve traffic/parking issues in a redevelopment project since there are so many theatres I looked at that have this same problem including the famous Uptown in Chicago. Granted the Capitol is not the Uptown (no where near it in fact). But it is still wonderful when a town can revitalize its old theatre.
Over where I live, they turned an old dilapidated movie house into a beautiful legit theatre that shows mainly live performances. The project was nothing short of amazing and the theatre is now one of the more popular places for something to do on the weekend here on Long Island. For those wanting to know, it is the Patchogue Theatre, Long Island NY. It should be listed here in CT.
“The area around the Worcester Common is not a bad area, just a ghosttown at night, as there is not much housing, and very safe during the day. The theater is on the same block as the Worcester Public Libray and right around the corner from the newly renovated Havover Theatre!!”
Oh really? Crime aside, would a ghost-town be any better? A theatre like any other business thrives off what is around it. Since theatres operate at night a good nightlife is important. If you are saying another theatre is open in that area, what evidence is there that the town could support another one?
The Worcester downtown area suffers from the same problems as other New England / Pennsylvania towns after most of the people leave in the area due to changes in the area, or changes in the workforce.
Also given the fact that the Paris last life was a XXX theatre, that should tell enough about the area it is in. Are the local police cleaning up things. Sure, of course, but it will take time before the downtown area gets revitalized.
It is just a high risk situation to reopen that theatre at this point in time. So I stand by what I say above.
As per your head count for murders, if you noticed, the larger the area the higher the number. Seriously you can’t compare a large city such as Boston to a small suburb as Worcester. Of course the figure is going to be higher in an urban area. The more people you have, the more trouble you have. Springfield is also attempting a bounce back from a poor economic state…plus it is a larger area as well.
Try comparing Boston’s Crime rate with that of New York, LA and Detroit. It wouldn’t even place because Boston is much smaller in comparison to those larger cities. Yet, even though New York may seem like it has a high rate, the fact is that the city has 8 million people in it and it has a pretty good crime rate for it’s size, but still it is a lot in comparison to the average suburb.
I take it you were aiming that at me since I made the comparisons of the three. I believe the words I used above were ‘more elaborate’…in which case both the Roxy and Uptown ARE more elaborate than Radio City. But then again both the Roxy and Uptown are more elaborate styles. Going by Genre now, yes, Radio City it at it’s very best in reference to the Art Deco style…which is plainer than the styles of the other two theatres. You simply must see interior pictures of the Uptown to understand what I am referring to.
I am NOT saying that Radio City isn’t a beautiful theatre. But if you do try to compare it to the Roxy or Uptown in terms of how elaborate the decor is…there is no comparison. Radio City has and always will be a favorite theatre of mine. So will the others, even though I never been to them. If you are from the NYC neck of the woods, the recently restored Loews Paradise in the Bronx is a definite must see.
Well, I guess that answers my question. The theatre still has it’s original marquee and it doesn’t seem to be in that bad a shape either. Looks like a repainting and re-neon-tubing, and it should be good to go. VERY nice indeed.
I would love to see the house, but I now have twin baby boys to attend to. So traveling will probably be out for the next 5 to 6 years.
As for the Uptown…I think if a good plan for parking is implented that would give the Uptown a serious support boost. This way if there is a good place for people to park, then more then likely the would sell out more seats.
Buildings like this are dwindling in numbers and it is extremely rare to find something of this size still in restorable shape. I too, am hoping for the best.
That is why it is all important to rally together and save what palaces we can. In your neck of the woods that would be the Uptown. The Uptown is very close in styling as to the Granada.
The trouble is the much of the area around the Uptown needs to be improved. Parking for on is an issue. But in the case of the Uptown it is worth it. Because of it’s large size the Uptown could very easily be Chicago’s Radio City. It is, in fact physically larger than Radio City (but not exeeding it’s capacity).
I think the biggest problem facing old theatres today is either a lack of a defined use, parking issues, and depressed downtown areas. Many old towns are reforming and trying to rebuild their downtown areas so that is a help. With gas prices rising, people are going to
turn to local entertainment again. The big issue is parking and this is one of the things the Uptown faces.
The Granada, unfortunately, was in a depressed area and faced the other problems I mentioned above. Sadly that has sealed it’s fate.
The famous Chicago Paradise does have a sister, the Loews Paradise in
the Bronx. It’s future was very grim until several groups of people got together and saved it and restored it. Granted it isn’t like the
Chicago Paradise, but it does share some of it’s styling. It is, of course, a John Eberson Atmospheric…my favorite :).
Nice to know that the Oswego is in good hands and someone is willing to properly care for the place. I know what it is like when a theatre gets in the wrong hands, the end results are usually hurtful for the theatre, the town, and all those that had high hopes that their theatre would be around for all time.
Perhaps movies will stick around a bit longer in Oswego. Still, I will keep a close eye on the place.
I wish my wife would think differently about moving because I really would have loved to go to Ohio and snatch up the Norwalk.
As I mentioned before this theatre is a tough call. If one were to buy the theatre pretty much it and the whole town of Fleishmanns is depending on just about all of it’s business from the Belleayre resort. That sits a bit uneasy with me. Having income coming primarily one attraction is not a good thing. For one, what happens if Belleayre shuts down? Fleishmanns will go right back were it was. Also as I mentioned, this theatre is mostly suited for live shows and Belleayre already has this ground covered with it’s summer tent shows. Sure you could just run movies out of Fleishmanns, but pretty much anyone that knows me here, knows my take on movies. There just isn’t any money in it anymore unless you have a large multiplex. So for those interested in this theatre…be careful it is a very risky project. Of course if you are willing to take the risk and have the extra $ laying round, I think this could be a nice project. While I don’t care for the location, the theatre itself appears to be very nice. In addition it has apartments and store fronts as well. If I were able to move this theatre to a better location, I would, because that is how much I like the layout and concept. Overall it is a single level theatre (the front is two floors), with a large overhead attic space. Maintenance looks pretty easy once the initial renovations are complete.
Wow! You learn something new everyday! I never heard about this place before. Shame on me! But I am happy to see that at least some parts of the Granada was saved to create this magnificent home.
What more is that my interests are nearly identical to Sanfilippo. I too love carousels, jukeboxes, antique radios, victrolas, organs, band organs, steam trains, old cars, old ships (I am a Titanic historian and have been recently researching both the Lucitania and the Normandie).
I think I would have a blast going through this home. I too have a small collection of my interests, but alas I have no where near the buying power of Sanfilippo. If I did, though, I think I would get my theatre first :).
Look just one post above yours. Best thing to do is contact the nightclub at that location now to get the information on the old owners. Contact them to find out what became of the organ. More than likely it is sold already. I don’t know of many people that could store an organ of that size.
I have made those claims as well. The Uptown is physically larger and more elaborate than Radio City Music Hall. However, Radio City has made much better use of it’s space. Thus it’s capacity is larger. Also it is a better design acoustically as well. With Radio City, there isn’t a bad seat in the house. It is a very ‘smartly’ designed theatre. But in terms of beauty, I still have to give that to the Uptown. The Roxy was also more beautiful than Radio City as well, but it had some problems with the layout. There was one time that even Radio City’s life was threatened, but the people of NYC had enough with the loss of the Roxy. So thankfully Radio City was saved. Unfortunately it really is no longer a movie house. I believe they still do show premiers there from time to time, but it is really a live performance theatre now.
I have already looked into this theatre and there are several problems. You already mentioned the one…metered parking. It is from my past experience with doing surveys on prospective theatre locations that I found out, people DO NOT want to pay for parking. They also do not want to walk a great distance from their cars to the theatre.
This is a HUGE problem with many downtown theatres in that there is not enough parking. Of course this is not the downtown’s fault or the theatres fault for simple reason as most downtowns were built before the automobile was invented. The trouble that hereinlies that a theatre has to adapt to these changes and the only solution is to provide some kind of structure or field nearby that would allow patrons to park in.
I am right now working on a solution for parking that could help many a downtown theatre. Hopefully my ideas will work. But in the case of this theatre, there is another problem and that is the owner of the building. The owner closed this building to open up a multiplex. Naturally to avoid competition the new owner has to agree not to operate a theatre out of this location. Of course that sounds stupid considering the building IS a theatre. I mean what else can you use it for.
I did want to go in the promise of using the theatre for live applications ONLY and thus without showing movies, not to competing with the owner. However, that didn’t seem to fly.
I have contacted the C of C already and pretty much obtained the information I needed. I just think that with the problems I mentioned above AND the fact that theatre is in not a very good shape to begin with, I pretty much am going to pass this one up. It is really the owner that is to blame because of his stiff conditions on purchasing the property. Personally I think he is probably going to let the building deteriorate until it has to be torn down.
Sad yes, worse…this isn’t the first time I heard of something like this. I think if the town really wants to save the theatre, they really have to step in. Perhaps if they bought the theatre and restored it for their own purposes then perhaps it could be saved.
Welcome aboard the “Cinema Treasures Express”! Be prepared for a wild ride here when it comes to old theatres. Like the real theatre, there is alot of happiness and heartache here and unfortunately you can’t have one without the other especially when discussing a topic such as this.
Like yourself, I had made my way here via the Styx Paradise Theatre album. I am more than twice over your age and Styx was in it’s grand heyday when the Paradise Theatre album was released. Needless to say I became obsessed with the album cover and the Paradise Theatre itself. As you probably can tell by my previous posts here, I did kind of become an authority figure here in regards to the album and I even had the grand opportunity to meet and discuss the album cover with the artist who created it.
Anyway, all the information is both here and also in the Paradise Theatre thread. There is more info there. However, it will take a pretty long time to get through the Paradise Theatre thread. It is one of the oldest and most visited threads here
I am happy to see that there is hope for our younger generations in that you do appreciate the granduer of these palaces. I too love old mansions having been to both the Vanderbilt and Westbury Garden mansions here on Long Island. I am an avid lover of Victorian architecture and I always dreamed of one day buying a Victorian home.
What you have discovered is character and that is missing in alot of ‘new’ things today. This is the same thing that makes one like old antique jukeboxes that play old 45 records, the same thing that makes one prefer a steam train over a modern electric one. Yes, I been to many museums, have restored many old radios and jukeboxes and I would love to restore an old theatre one day.
I have been looking to buy a theatre recently and with that comes not only the desire to preserve something old and cherished, but there is also the business side and unfortunately it has to rear it’s ugly head. The truth of the matter is that for a theatre to be restored and reopened…there has to be a market for it’s use.
Another largly overlooked problem is parking. Most of these grand palaces were built in a time where the horse and buggy reigned. Most people walked or took a trolley. Those days are gone and cars have taken over. Now a theater needs ample space to put all these cars. That is a big problem with most small community theatres.
Today, movies are not profitable. The movie companies just simply take too much for small movies houses to turn a profit, which is why you see these large featureless 30 something theatre buildings crop up. There is always strength in numbers and this is no different for the movie industry. More theatres means more people, more people means more food bought at the concession stand. THAT is the real place where theatres make thier money nowadays.
But for old theatres, there is still hope. Live shows, community events, concerts. Yes, these types of shows will bring in many more profits than movies.
Some old theatres have already been saved that follow a live performance only schedule. Which brings me to what I believe is one of the happiest times (in my opinion) in modern theatre history.
I do not know if you ever heard of the Lowes Paradise Theatre in the Bronx. It was recently restored a couple years ago. It is a magnificent building that does share a lineage with the Chicago Paradise. I refer to the two theatres as sisters because of the similar designs and also the fact that both theatres were built around the same time by John Eberson. Both theatre’s are of the Atmospheric design and this was a style that Eberson excelled at.
It would be worth your while to come to the Bronx and see the Loews Paradise. They do offer tours of the building.
I too believe that the destruction of old theatres should stop. But it isn’t always the case. Many times I wished I could just move one of these old theatres to a better place since it is many times the location that really makes the difference.
Long Island is finally lamenting it’s past doings that hasitly demolished or converted most of it’s old theatres. As of now, Patchogue was the only town wise enough to invest in their theatre and had it restored. Now it has become a well known and very popular theatre. People here do want more theatres because with the rising costs of fuel, people want to stay close to home and want something to do locally.
This is something I understand as well because now people don’t want to travel as much because of high property taxes and high gas prices. The money simply isn’t there to go into the city and see a VERY expensive show. So the more local entertainment is warranted, the more the desire to have a theatre close to home.
So hopefully there will be those that step up to the plate and we may see more old downtown theatres being restored and used again.
Anyway, I talked off topic enough here. Once again, welcome to CT!
Thanx for the picture, but I do have quite a few now. I did persue an interest in this theatre for a while and I did gather up much information on it. However, the current owner wants over $600k for the building, and I didn’t feel it is worth it. The theatre is gutted and would need a complete overhaul. Given the pictures I have I feel the building isn’t worth more than $350k. So I seriously doubt the owner would go down to that price anytime soon. So I moved on. I found myself an adorable little Grange Hall in New Hampshire that I am taking an interest in. It is small, but it is in good order and has PLENTY of off street parking and the property is on a main road. It is priced well too. So I think I may end up buying this property. It WILL turn out to be a nice intimate dinner theater. I really wanted something larger, but I really can’t sneeze at this opportunity. So we will see how it turns out.
They got a good shot of the marquee…especially the underside. The Norwalk has the same patterning, but is more elaborate. They have more lighting underneath as well.
Wow! That is a beautiful aerial shot you have there. Roadshow was right though…there are several areas near the theatre including an empty lot next to it that could be available for parking. This building does have good parking potential for a live theatre.
Yes, as you can see the little outbuilding attached to the right of the building…that is where two of the 7 theatres are.
No, it isn’t a small building at all, I remember that the Norwalk was about 4 to five car lengths wide, this theatre is an easy 5. Then there is the depth…way deeper than the Norwalk.
One thing I did notice also that there is ‘alot going on’ in back of the Oswego. Thus I am wondering if it has better stage facilities than the Norwalk. Perhaps better dressing rooms, a large fly area, and what not.
As for theatre screen mashing, yeah that was a typical 80’s trend. I call it ‘shoeboxification’, based on the way my mom coined the term of a small theatre as a shoebox. My mom is from the tale end of the 40’s, so she does know what many of the old picture palaces were like. She has been to many of the old NY theatres such as the Roxy, Loews Valencia, and of course Radio City (her favorite). So she is really used to larger theatres.
The Norwalk did have a sitting area for both the men and women upstairs in the balcony lobby. The sitting areas were small though. But they clearly had a mens and womens side and they funneled out into the main balcony lobby area that fed to the staircase as well as the balcony entrance. A really nice set up and this area was about 98% original. The balcony rug was original, all the bathroom fixtures were original.
Overall it is a very pampered building and it is surprising how much of it is intact. I guess that is why I liked it so much.
Both the Norwalk and the Oswego are really a combination of two art styles…Greek and Art Deco. Hence sometimes these style theatres are called Greco Deco theatres. That is probably what confused you. Now I have not seen the interior of the Oswego either prior or post “botchification”, but the Norwalk had more of the Greek influences in it’s lobby. The vestibule and much of the exterior is Art Deco. The striping on the exterior is more Greek as well.
Getting back to the lobby, the Norwalk does have large columns and there is more striping there as well. Now the balcony lounge areas by the original rest rooms is more art deco. The auditorium is also more art deco as well.
I could only assume that the design lines were similar for both theatres because they were sisters, built by the same designer and the same year no less.
John Eberson has always created masterpieces in theatre construction and these two buildings are no different. They are very well built and were built to exceed the then standard building design tolerances. For instance the concrete floor slabs are immense. They are extremely thick. In Norwalk they designated the theatre as one of the town’s gathering places if there ever was a disaster. These buildings will stand for a very very long time if they are properly taken care of.
As for the size…yeah, it is probably small now, but I could say that in the past 1800+ seating is really nothing to sneeze at. That is a pretty big place. As for how they divided the theatre, well, not all 7 theatres are in the main building. I believe someone mentioned that an auxillary build was created to the side of the theatre and that building houses the two last screens. So the configuration is one large main screen fore balcony. The balcony itself was split both top and bottom, netting 4 theatres, and then the two in outside building.
I found it tough to envision too, but then I saw an aerial view of the building and the overall space it takes up is considerable. It is WAY bigger than the Norwalk Theatre. The nice thing though with the Norwalk Theatre is that it is for the most part unspoiled. So even though it’s 900 seats may not sound impressive or large, you really have to see it from a stage point of view. It isn’t small at all. Given that the original single screen of the Oswego is double that figure…well, let me say that I sure can picture it being VERY large. Which is why I am really itching to see inside pictures prior to the theatre’s conversion.
Of course if you have been in a large theatre such as Radio City Music Hall, then obviously everything else is small in comparison.
Roadshow. Ok, I see the email address now. Expect a message soon.
Ahhh, that is MUCH better. Always like to see something on the marquee. So that means they are open again. That is a good thing. I do hope that the place is in the right hands this time around. A couple years ago they had some financial botching and they closed for a while.
The only thing worse than a blank marquee is one that says “Closed”, “Out of Business”, and the infamous “Temporarily Closed” (a nod to the reverse side of the Styx Paradise Theatre album).
I know they been having problems getting a decent person to run this place…but if it hasn’t reopened yet, there is something serious going on over there. What more is that I would be concerned about this theatre’s future.
JG
It is a beautiful theatre and I do hope that it does reopen.
Jezz this really was an awesome theater:
http://tinyurl.com/5v2uq2
http://www.planetplg.com/images/loews-stage.jpg
And today:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marioletto/278380160/
I does irk me very much that even in a metropolis such as NYC that a use for this magnificent structure (that preserves its integrity) can’t be found. It is a constant battle I go through in my mind every time I see a beautiful theatre like this. One side is the preservationist, but on the other side is that all important business aspect.
It is hard to believe that through time it is the very size and grandeur of these old picture palaces is what is working against it today.
I don’t know if someone is working on something in regards to this theater. I certainly would hope so.
Geo
I don’t know the demographics surrounding this particular area. But I am very well aware that a theatre is a business and certain elements must be in place for it to succeed as such. First thing I look at is the parking and mass transit. People have to get to the place and if parking or transit is a problem…then it would make saving an old theatre a very hard proposition. Second issue is the building’s use. Strangely enough, most die hard preservationists overlook this very important detail. It is obvious that something this size wouldn’t work as a movie house any longer. But it could as a live venue. Key things to look for are other competing theatres in the area. Sometimes searching for an alternative use that perserves much of the building’s past could be looked into. As it is, two of the other Wonder Theatres have new life as a church. A different performance venue, such as a dance hall or dinner theatre could be explored. Brooklyn’s proximity to Manhattan and the transit system should support the numbers. But again, without knowing the demographics of the area, it is hard to tell. Many good heads are needed to come together on something like this. It would be a terrible loss if this building just continues to sit and deteriorate.
Geo
Hmmmm,
I just looked at the aerial shot of the theatre. There is quite a bit of parking around it with two large fields. Probably private lots, but if something could be worked out…
But still 3192 seats is a tough order to fill, it is a pretty big place.
Hello Tony,
Thank you for those pictures. I came across them by accident when I was looking up something on the Valencia.
I am amazed that the Kings does look like it is in very restorable condition and I believe this is the only Loews Wonder Theatre that is not in operation. I know that two are being used as churches and two are being used as rightful theatres.
I didn’t think too much of the Kings, but now that I have seen the inside I am very much hoping this building gets restored too. I saw what they have done with the Loews Paradise and it words alone cannot explain the sheer beauty of that theatre.
I am hoping that someone can put good use to their theatre. Then at least all 5 of the Wonder Theatres would be in operation. I actually was lead to believe the Kings was in worse condition than this, but it isn’t. I hope it will be saved.
Geo
Hello guys been a while since I been here, so I have some catching up to do.
Luis V.
I guess we cleared up that above. Yes, I do recommend visiting the Loews Wonder Theatres. There are three more as well, one is in Brooklyn…The Kings (I believe), The 175th st Manhattan, and the Jersey City theater. All are still standing and all except the Brooklyn are still being used. Both the Jersey City and Paradise continue operation as a Theatre. The 175th st Theatre and the Valencia are run by a churches.
Life’s Too Short:
A while back I think I did post a link to a picture here of the Granada with its original Marquee.
Look through it. Email me if you can’t find it, I can’t post a picture here. But I have one with the original Marquee lit at night. It should be in the discussion on the Styx Paradise Theatre album cover I did a while back.
BW Chicago:
That IS a nice aerial shot. In the picture, it would have looked like the Granada had a nice parking lot if it wasn’t for that road wasting all that good space there. To bad the neighborhood soured. To bad the building couldn’t be moved :(. But it was a building worth saving. The Granada is one of my favorite theatre buildings.
Geo
Hello Jaghousing.
If the town would consider a proposition for improving the parking in the downtown area AND the building’s owner can be convinced to sell the building unconditional to it’s use…then I would reconsider. As if you have read my posts above, there are just certain issues that are attached to this building that initially scared me away from it. However, I do believe with some time and money the building can be made into a beautiful live performing arts theatre that could benefit the town.
But I think the larger issue of parking in the area would have to be addressed first. Possibly the erection of a parking garage and/or bus service could assist tremendously. Not only would this benefit a theatre project, but it would help in the development in the downtown area. In order for any commercial operation to work…the people HAVE to find you AND getting to you has to be easy.
As I said above, I do have a few ideas on how to solve traffic/parking issues in a redevelopment project since there are so many theatres I looked at that have this same problem including the famous Uptown in Chicago. Granted the Capitol is not the Uptown (no where near it in fact). But it is still wonderful when a town can revitalize its old theatre.
Over where I live, they turned an old dilapidated movie house into a beautiful legit theatre that shows mainly live performances. The project was nothing short of amazing and the theatre is now one of the more popular places for something to do on the weekend here on Long Island. For those wanting to know, it is the Patchogue Theatre, Long Island NY. It should be listed here in CT.
Geo
Gould Says,
“The area around the Worcester Common is not a bad area, just a ghosttown at night, as there is not much housing, and very safe during the day. The theater is on the same block as the Worcester Public Libray and right around the corner from the newly renovated Havover Theatre!!”
Oh really? Crime aside, would a ghost-town be any better? A theatre like any other business thrives off what is around it. Since theatres operate at night a good nightlife is important. If you are saying another theatre is open in that area, what evidence is there that the town could support another one?
The Worcester downtown area suffers from the same problems as other New England / Pennsylvania towns after most of the people leave in the area due to changes in the area, or changes in the workforce.
Also given the fact that the Paris last life was a XXX theatre, that should tell enough about the area it is in. Are the local police cleaning up things. Sure, of course, but it will take time before the downtown area gets revitalized.
It is just a high risk situation to reopen that theatre at this point in time. So I stand by what I say above.
As per your head count for murders, if you noticed, the larger the area the higher the number. Seriously you can’t compare a large city such as Boston to a small suburb as Worcester. Of course the figure is going to be higher in an urban area. The more people you have, the more trouble you have. Springfield is also attempting a bounce back from a poor economic state…plus it is a larger area as well.
Try comparing Boston’s Crime rate with that of New York, LA and Detroit. It wouldn’t even place because Boston is much smaller in comparison to those larger cities. Yet, even though New York may seem like it has a high rate, the fact is that the city has 8 million people in it and it has a pretty good crime rate for it’s size, but still it is a lot in comparison to the average suburb.
Hello LuisV,
I take it you were aiming that at me since I made the comparisons of the three. I believe the words I used above were ‘more elaborate’…in which case both the Roxy and Uptown ARE more elaborate than Radio City. But then again both the Roxy and Uptown are more elaborate styles. Going by Genre now, yes, Radio City it at it’s very best in reference to the Art Deco style…which is plainer than the styles of the other two theatres. You simply must see interior pictures of the Uptown to understand what I am referring to.
I am NOT saying that Radio City isn’t a beautiful theatre. But if you do try to compare it to the Roxy or Uptown in terms of how elaborate the decor is…there is no comparison. Radio City has and always will be a favorite theatre of mine. So will the others, even though I never been to them. If you are from the NYC neck of the woods, the recently restored Loews Paradise in the Bronx is a definite must see.
JG
Hello all,
Well, I guess that answers my question. The theatre still has it’s original marquee and it doesn’t seem to be in that bad a shape either. Looks like a repainting and re-neon-tubing, and it should be good to go. VERY nice indeed.
Thanx for posting the pixs, Lost.
JG
Hello IM,
I would love to see the house, but I now have twin baby boys to attend to. So traveling will probably be out for the next 5 to 6 years.
As for the Uptown…I think if a good plan for parking is implented that would give the Uptown a serious support boost. This way if there is a good place for people to park, then more then likely the would sell out more seats.
Buildings like this are dwindling in numbers and it is extremely rare to find something of this size still in restorable shape. I too, am hoping for the best.
JG
Hello Debear:
That is why it is all important to rally together and save what palaces we can. In your neck of the woods that would be the Uptown. The Uptown is very close in styling as to the Granada.
The trouble is the much of the area around the Uptown needs to be improved. Parking for on is an issue. But in the case of the Uptown it is worth it. Because of it’s large size the Uptown could very easily be Chicago’s Radio City. It is, in fact physically larger than Radio City (but not exeeding it’s capacity).
I think the biggest problem facing old theatres today is either a lack of a defined use, parking issues, and depressed downtown areas. Many old towns are reforming and trying to rebuild their downtown areas so that is a help. With gas prices rising, people are going to
turn to local entertainment again. The big issue is parking and this is one of the things the Uptown faces.
The Granada, unfortunately, was in a depressed area and faced the other problems I mentioned above. Sadly that has sealed it’s fate.
The famous Chicago Paradise does have a sister, the Loews Paradise in
the Bronx. It’s future was very grim until several groups of people got together and saved it and restored it. Granted it isn’t like the
Chicago Paradise, but it does share some of it’s styling. It is, of course, a John Eberson Atmospheric…my favorite :).
Geo
Hello Roadshow,
Nice to know that the Oswego is in good hands and someone is willing to properly care for the place. I know what it is like when a theatre gets in the wrong hands, the end results are usually hurtful for the theatre, the town, and all those that had high hopes that their theatre would be around for all time.
Perhaps movies will stick around a bit longer in Oswego. Still, I will keep a close eye on the place.
I wish my wife would think differently about moving because I really would have loved to go to Ohio and snatch up the Norwalk.
Geo
Hello All,
As I mentioned before this theatre is a tough call. If one were to buy the theatre pretty much it and the whole town of Fleishmanns is depending on just about all of it’s business from the Belleayre resort. That sits a bit uneasy with me. Having income coming primarily one attraction is not a good thing. For one, what happens if Belleayre shuts down? Fleishmanns will go right back were it was. Also as I mentioned, this theatre is mostly suited for live shows and Belleayre already has this ground covered with it’s summer tent shows. Sure you could just run movies out of Fleishmanns, but pretty much anyone that knows me here, knows my take on movies. There just isn’t any money in it anymore unless you have a large multiplex. So for those interested in this theatre…be careful it is a very risky project. Of course if you are willing to take the risk and have the extra $ laying round, I think this could be a nice project. While I don’t care for the location, the theatre itself appears to be very nice. In addition it has apartments and store fronts as well. If I were able to move this theatre to a better location, I would, because that is how much I like the layout and concept. Overall it is a single level theatre (the front is two floors), with a large overhead attic space. Maintenance looks pretty easy once the initial renovations are complete.
Geo
Hello all,
Wow! You learn something new everyday! I never heard about this place before. Shame on me! But I am happy to see that at least some parts of the Granada was saved to create this magnificent home.
What more is that my interests are nearly identical to Sanfilippo. I too love carousels, jukeboxes, antique radios, victrolas, organs, band organs, steam trains, old cars, old ships (I am a Titanic historian and have been recently researching both the Lucitania and the Normandie).
I think I would have a blast going through this home. I too have a small collection of my interests, but alas I have no where near the buying power of Sanfilippo. If I did, though, I think I would get my theatre first :).
Geo
Hello DR.
Look just one post above yours. Best thing to do is contact the nightclub at that location now to get the information on the old owners. Contact them to find out what became of the organ. More than likely it is sold already. I don’t know of many people that could store an organ of that size.
Hello Dougd
I have made those claims as well. The Uptown is physically larger and more elaborate than Radio City Music Hall. However, Radio City has made much better use of it’s space. Thus it’s capacity is larger. Also it is a better design acoustically as well. With Radio City, there isn’t a bad seat in the house. It is a very ‘smartly’ designed theatre. But in terms of beauty, I still have to give that to the Uptown. The Roxy was also more beautiful than Radio City as well, but it had some problems with the layout. There was one time that even Radio City’s life was threatened, but the people of NYC had enough with the loss of the Roxy. So thankfully Radio City was saved. Unfortunately it really is no longer a movie house. I believe they still do show premiers there from time to time, but it is really a live performance theatre now.
Geo
Hello Bloomingburg,
I have already looked into this theatre and there are several problems. You already mentioned the one…metered parking. It is from my past experience with doing surveys on prospective theatre locations that I found out, people DO NOT want to pay for parking. They also do not want to walk a great distance from their cars to the theatre.
This is a HUGE problem with many downtown theatres in that there is not enough parking. Of course this is not the downtown’s fault or the theatres fault for simple reason as most downtowns were built before the automobile was invented. The trouble that hereinlies that a theatre has to adapt to these changes and the only solution is to provide some kind of structure or field nearby that would allow patrons to park in.
I am right now working on a solution for parking that could help many a downtown theatre. Hopefully my ideas will work. But in the case of this theatre, there is another problem and that is the owner of the building. The owner closed this building to open up a multiplex. Naturally to avoid competition the new owner has to agree not to operate a theatre out of this location. Of course that sounds stupid considering the building IS a theatre. I mean what else can you use it for.
I did want to go in the promise of using the theatre for live applications ONLY and thus without showing movies, not to competing with the owner. However, that didn’t seem to fly.
I have contacted the C of C already and pretty much obtained the information I needed. I just think that with the problems I mentioned above AND the fact that theatre is in not a very good shape to begin with, I pretty much am going to pass this one up. It is really the owner that is to blame because of his stiff conditions on purchasing the property. Personally I think he is probably going to let the building deteriorate until it has to be torn down.
Sad yes, worse…this isn’t the first time I heard of something like this. I think if the town really wants to save the theatre, they really have to step in. Perhaps if they bought the theatre and restored it for their own purposes then perhaps it could be saved.
Geo
Hello Molly Beth
Welcome aboard the “Cinema Treasures Express”! Be prepared for a wild ride here when it comes to old theatres. Like the real theatre, there is alot of happiness and heartache here and unfortunately you can’t have one without the other especially when discussing a topic such as this.
Like yourself, I had made my way here via the Styx Paradise Theatre album. I am more than twice over your age and Styx was in it’s grand heyday when the Paradise Theatre album was released. Needless to say I became obsessed with the album cover and the Paradise Theatre itself. As you probably can tell by my previous posts here, I did kind of become an authority figure here in regards to the album and I even had the grand opportunity to meet and discuss the album cover with the artist who created it.
Anyway, all the information is both here and also in the Paradise Theatre thread. There is more info there. However, it will take a pretty long time to get through the Paradise Theatre thread. It is one of the oldest and most visited threads here
I am happy to see that there is hope for our younger generations in that you do appreciate the granduer of these palaces. I too love old mansions having been to both the Vanderbilt and Westbury Garden mansions here on Long Island. I am an avid lover of Victorian architecture and I always dreamed of one day buying a Victorian home.
What you have discovered is character and that is missing in alot of ‘new’ things today. This is the same thing that makes one like old antique jukeboxes that play old 45 records, the same thing that makes one prefer a steam train over a modern electric one. Yes, I been to many museums, have restored many old radios and jukeboxes and I would love to restore an old theatre one day.
I have been looking to buy a theatre recently and with that comes not only the desire to preserve something old and cherished, but there is also the business side and unfortunately it has to rear it’s ugly head. The truth of the matter is that for a theatre to be restored and reopened…there has to be a market for it’s use.
Another largly overlooked problem is parking. Most of these grand palaces were built in a time where the horse and buggy reigned. Most people walked or took a trolley. Those days are gone and cars have taken over. Now a theater needs ample space to put all these cars. That is a big problem with most small community theatres.
Today, movies are not profitable. The movie companies just simply take too much for small movies houses to turn a profit, which is why you see these large featureless 30 something theatre buildings crop up. There is always strength in numbers and this is no different for the movie industry. More theatres means more people, more people means more food bought at the concession stand. THAT is the real place where theatres make thier money nowadays.
But for old theatres, there is still hope. Live shows, community events, concerts. Yes, these types of shows will bring in many more profits than movies.
Some old theatres have already been saved that follow a live performance only schedule. Which brings me to what I believe is one of the happiest times (in my opinion) in modern theatre history.
I do not know if you ever heard of the Lowes Paradise Theatre in the Bronx. It was recently restored a couple years ago. It is a magnificent building that does share a lineage with the Chicago Paradise. I refer to the two theatres as sisters because of the similar designs and also the fact that both theatres were built around the same time by John Eberson. Both theatre’s are of the Atmospheric design and this was a style that Eberson excelled at.
It would be worth your while to come to the Bronx and see the Loews Paradise. They do offer tours of the building.
I too believe that the destruction of old theatres should stop. But it isn’t always the case. Many times I wished I could just move one of these old theatres to a better place since it is many times the location that really makes the difference.
Long Island is finally lamenting it’s past doings that hasitly demolished or converted most of it’s old theatres. As of now, Patchogue was the only town wise enough to invest in their theatre and had it restored. Now it has become a well known and very popular theatre. People here do want more theatres because with the rising costs of fuel, people want to stay close to home and want something to do locally.
This is something I understand as well because now people don’t want to travel as much because of high property taxes and high gas prices. The money simply isn’t there to go into the city and see a VERY expensive show. So the more local entertainment is warranted, the more the desire to have a theatre close to home.
So hopefully there will be those that step up to the plate and we may see more old downtown theatres being restored and used again.
Anyway, I talked off topic enough here. Once again, welcome to CT!
Geo
Hello Roadshow,
VERY nice explanation. I got the full picture of how the division is now.
Thanx,
Geo
Hello M. PA resident.
Thanx for the picture, but I do have quite a few now. I did persue an interest in this theatre for a while and I did gather up much information on it. However, the current owner wants over $600k for the building, and I didn’t feel it is worth it. The theatre is gutted and would need a complete overhaul. Given the pictures I have I feel the building isn’t worth more than $350k. So I seriously doubt the owner would go down to that price anytime soon. So I moved on. I found myself an adorable little Grange Hall in New Hampshire that I am taking an interest in. It is small, but it is in good order and has PLENTY of off street parking and the property is on a main road. It is priced well too. So I think I may end up buying this property. It WILL turn out to be a nice intimate dinner theater. I really wanted something larger, but I really can’t sneeze at this opportunity. So we will see how it turns out.
Geo
Nice article, Lost
They got a good shot of the marquee…especially the underside. The Norwalk has the same patterning, but is more elaborate. They have more lighting underneath as well.
JG
Hello Sue
Wow! That is a beautiful aerial shot you have there. Roadshow was right though…there are several areas near the theatre including an empty lot next to it that could be available for parking. This building does have good parking potential for a live theatre.
Yes, as you can see the little outbuilding attached to the right of the building…that is where two of the 7 theatres are.
No, it isn’t a small building at all, I remember that the Norwalk was about 4 to five car lengths wide, this theatre is an easy 5. Then there is the depth…way deeper than the Norwalk.
One thing I did notice also that there is ‘alot going on’ in back of the Oswego. Thus I am wondering if it has better stage facilities than the Norwalk. Perhaps better dressing rooms, a large fly area, and what not.
As for theatre screen mashing, yeah that was a typical 80’s trend. I call it ‘shoeboxification’, based on the way my mom coined the term of a small theatre as a shoebox. My mom is from the tale end of the 40’s, so she does know what many of the old picture palaces were like. She has been to many of the old NY theatres such as the Roxy, Loews Valencia, and of course Radio City (her favorite). So she is really used to larger theatres.
The Norwalk did have a sitting area for both the men and women upstairs in the balcony lobby. The sitting areas were small though. But they clearly had a mens and womens side and they funneled out into the main balcony lobby area that fed to the staircase as well as the balcony entrance. A really nice set up and this area was about 98% original. The balcony rug was original, all the bathroom fixtures were original.
Overall it is a very pampered building and it is surprising how much of it is intact. I guess that is why I liked it so much.
Well, I have to run…
JG
Hello Sue,
Both the Norwalk and the Oswego are really a combination of two art styles…Greek and Art Deco. Hence sometimes these style theatres are called Greco Deco theatres. That is probably what confused you. Now I have not seen the interior of the Oswego either prior or post “botchification”, but the Norwalk had more of the Greek influences in it’s lobby. The vestibule and much of the exterior is Art Deco. The striping on the exterior is more Greek as well.
Getting back to the lobby, the Norwalk does have large columns and there is more striping there as well. Now the balcony lounge areas by the original rest rooms is more art deco. The auditorium is also more art deco as well.
I could only assume that the design lines were similar for both theatres because they were sisters, built by the same designer and the same year no less.
John Eberson has always created masterpieces in theatre construction and these two buildings are no different. They are very well built and were built to exceed the then standard building design tolerances. For instance the concrete floor slabs are immense. They are extremely thick. In Norwalk they designated the theatre as one of the town’s gathering places if there ever was a disaster. These buildings will stand for a very very long time if they are properly taken care of.
As for the size…yeah, it is probably small now, but I could say that in the past 1800+ seating is really nothing to sneeze at. That is a pretty big place. As for how they divided the theatre, well, not all 7 theatres are in the main building. I believe someone mentioned that an auxillary build was created to the side of the theatre and that building houses the two last screens. So the configuration is one large main screen fore balcony. The balcony itself was split both top and bottom, netting 4 theatres, and then the two in outside building.
I found it tough to envision too, but then I saw an aerial view of the building and the overall space it takes up is considerable. It is WAY bigger than the Norwalk Theatre. The nice thing though with the Norwalk Theatre is that it is for the most part unspoiled. So even though it’s 900 seats may not sound impressive or large, you really have to see it from a stage point of view. It isn’t small at all. Given that the original single screen of the Oswego is double that figure…well, let me say that I sure can picture it being VERY large. Which is why I am really itching to see inside pictures prior to the theatre’s conversion.
Of course if you have been in a large theatre such as Radio City Music Hall, then obviously everything else is small in comparison.
Roadshow. Ok, I see the email address now. Expect a message soon.
Hello Lost….
Ahhh, that is MUCH better. Always like to see something on the marquee. So that means they are open again. That is a good thing. I do hope that the place is in the right hands this time around. A couple years ago they had some financial botching and they closed for a while.
The only thing worse than a blank marquee is one that says “Closed”, “Out of Business”, and the infamous “Temporarily Closed” (a nod to the reverse side of the Styx Paradise Theatre album).
Geo
Hello Lost,
Is that a recent picture?
Hasn’t this theatre reopened yet????
I know they been having problems getting a decent person to run this place…but if it hasn’t reopened yet, there is something serious going on over there. What more is that I would be concerned about this theatre’s future.
JG
It is a beautiful theatre and I do hope that it does reopen.