Radio City Music Hall

Simon L. Saltzman on March 28, 2005 at 9:57 am

There were never seats for those waiting in line either at the Roxy or at the Music Hall. The Roxy had the advantage, however since they could pack patrons, often 10 abreast, from the outer lobby on 7th Ave and 50th St. all the way (virtually a block long) to the auditorium entrance which was to the right of the rotunda in the direction of the elevators to the balcony,leaving ample exit room from doors to the center and left of the rotunda. Waiting crowds never had to mingle with those leaving as ropes were used. In neither theaters were the lounges used for waiting, unless you had reserved seats or didn’t care if you lost your place in line. The Roxy also allowed (although it was against fire regulations) patrons to wait on the grand staircase to the balcony. That line often stretched from the balcony to the main floor. This is the reason, street lines were rare at the Roxy, except for those few gigantic hits like “Forever Amber,” “Wilson,” “The Robe,” “The Razor’s Edge,"and "Stars and Stripes Forever.” Sorry about my memory about the underseas ballet…they did it so often I often mismatch film and show. Does anyone know what production was repeated the most?

Benjamin on March 28, 2005 at 9:21 am

I’ve also read elsewhere that the Roxy Theater’s lobby could accommodate vast numbers and that the Radio City Music Hall lobby wasn’t designed for this. But I’m a bit skeptical, and would be interested in a bit more detailed info if anyone has any.

Looking at floor plans, it seems that the Radio City Music Hall lobby was actually much larger than that of the Roxy — just a bit narrower, perhaps, but much deeper. In the Music Hall, the lobby went clear across the block, from 50th to 51st St., plus there was a basement lounge that seemed to be about as wide as the street level lobby and it also went clear across the block. In contrast, the Roxy’s rotunda only went, so it seems from the plans in “Best Remaining Seats,” about halfway into the block (and it doesn’t appear to be all that much wider — if it was even wider in the first place — than that of either the RCMH lobby or the RCMH basement lounge).

Also, since no one seems to mention a vast basement lounge for the Roxy, I’m guessing that it didn’t have one. While it’s true that the lobby spaces for Music Hall balcony levels were narrow (pre-empted by the open space above the lobby), I get the impression that the vast basement lounge was the RCMH’s answer to whatever upper level lounges/waiting spaces the Roxy might have had.

So it’s hard to imagine why — or how — the Roxy could accommodate so many more people in its lobby (rotunda) than Radio City Music Hall could in its lobby spaces.

How did people actually wait in the Roxy rotunda? Did they just stand there in line — but indoors instead of outdoors — or were there 1,500 seats/benches in the rotunda and 500 seats/ benches in the tunnels leading to the balcony? If they were just standing there, it seems to me a similar arrangement could have been set up in the Music Hall if the management really wanted to.

I’m not saying it would be easy to do — it probably would necessitate different procedures and different circulation patterns — but it doesn’t appear to be all that impossible or that the Roxy was set up all that differently or better than RCMH for waiting crowds. Rather it seems more like a business decision, that in one theater they wanted people waiting in lines in the lobby and in another they didn’t.

On the other hand, one other guess — and this is in support of the Roxy having more waiting space — in the Hall book there are photos of an upper level foyer in the Roxy. (The one pictured has large decorative windows, so I suppose it is behind one of the windows on the 50th St. side.) This foyer seems rather wide and, if I recall correctly has decorative niches that could accommodate a bench or two. So, if the Roxy did have any advantages, I guess this would be it. But it’s still hard to imagine that these wide hallways made that big a difference.

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P.S. — I have a vague recollection that the basement lounge of RCMH was indeed used as a waiting area of sorts (maybe for those with reserved seats?). I wonder if this was true?

Simon L. Saltzman on March 28, 2005 at 8:48 am

Sayonara was a huge hit…possibly the highest Christmas grosser in their history playing nine weeks. People love to cry at movies and Christmas is no exception. Brando was big boxoffice. The pity with that engagement was the short 25-minute show, although it did include the famed underseas ballet.

Simon L. Saltzman on March 28, 2005 at 7:43 am

Getting back to waiting in line at the Music Hall: Remember that the foyer was not built for hold outs like the Roxy Theater which could accomodate 1,500 people standing in the rotunda and another 500 in the tunnels leading to the balcony. The Music Hall foyer was designed for reserved seating throughout with the exiting doors to the orchestra opening directly into the foyer. A full initial (6,000 seated for the first show in the morning; often on a Sunday during holiday times)would require the foyer and all doors free of waiting patrons; at the break, entrances on both 50 and 51st street would be opened to speed things up. It was always a problem getting people in between breaks. Actually the management preferred a continuing spill to keeps things moving smoothly. Most days the foyer line would be kept to a minimum just to feed the standing room within the orchestra. Therefore a streetline would be a typical sight before breaks even if there were seats available. With all boxoffices going for the initial, it took one hour to fill the house.

VincentParisi on March 28, 2005 at 6:34 am

Great story Jerry though I would have happily waited those hours to see that Christmas show(and I’ve never been able to get through the entire film myself.)
Harvest does seem a rather sombre film for a Christmas show(well what about The Late George Aply as an Easter Show and then there was the R Russell aviatrix Easter show-what were they thinking?) But I give it a pass because I think it is one of the most beautiful films to ever come out of Hollywood. It’s like grand opera-it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense but is it ever powerful.

BoxOfficeBill on March 25, 2005 at 7:53 am

A year earlier, the ‘42 Christmas show was the equally sombre (and equally long and equally Greer Garson-ed) “Random Harvest.” At least with “Mme Curie,” kids might be convinced that the bio was good historical medicine for them. Three rousing Christmas shows at RCMH towards the end of Cary Grant’s career were “Operation Petticoat” ('59), “Charade” ('63), and “Father Goose” ('64). “Walk, Don’t Run” might have been a good late summer film at RCMH, even though its story skirted the tsk-tsk topic of co-habitation (so did “The More the Merrier, which opened at RCMH in May twenty-two years earlier). I stand second to none in admiring Hepburn, Wyler, and O'Toole, but I thought "How to Steal a Million” quite dull. The astute author of a superb Hepburn bio mentions critics who faulted “a trite script” and “elephantine direction.” Worse than “Million,” the films preceding and following it were the silly “Glass Bottom Boat” and the slow-moving “Kaleidoscope.” Surely “Walk, Don’t Run” might have zig-zagged into RCMH instead of either.

BoxOfficeBill on March 24, 2005 at 2:41 pm

REndres— Thanks for your description of the two screening rooms. Your reference to the Rear Projection booth backstage answers my question posted on this page last 25 January about the booth’s odd extrusion into the Associated Press Building as seen in detailed floorplans of RCMH.

RobertEndres on March 24, 2005 at 9:49 am

The Music Hall had two screening rooms: Preview A and Preview B. Preview A was large enough that they could do staff screenings for the Rockettes and stage crew on the supper break (when “Gone With the Wind” opened they screened one half each night for two nights, since it was too long for the staff to catch on a dinner break). Screening new features each night for the staff may not have been entirely altruistic on the part of management — it kept the crew out of bars during the long break! The smaller room was the RKO screening room when the company occupied the office building built over the lobby. There was a common lobby area outside the two rooms with steps leading down to a set of doors on the Music Hall roof which opened out on a short walk which led to doors into the RKO
building, so RKO staff could cross over into the Hall for screenings without having to go down to street level. It probably was in one of those two screening rooms that “Citizen Kane” was first screened in New York. Robert Wise, who was the editor, recalls hand carrying the film to the Hall for a screening for select press members. Both rooms eventually became Cine-Mix an early film re-recording and mixing facility, and then became idle when Cine-Mix got too big for the space. I frequently screened shorts for Charles Hacker, the Hall’s Chief Operating Officer and Frederic Kellers in Previw B, as well as worked on film effects for the stage shows in that room. We were able to keep copies of a number of shorts that the Hall played, and if it was a quiet day, Fred would ask if we could go up and screen something. When I left, the rooms were being used as offices, but the booths were still there used for storage (they are nitrate capable booths and therefore built like bunkers). One of the projectors with a lamphouse used in the Rear Projection booth backstage is now on display at the Museum of the Moving Image in Queens.

VincentParisi on March 24, 2005 at 7:25 am

Sunflower was in the fall of ‘70 and I remember seeing it at a packed Saturday morning perf but don’t remember people being unhappy at the dubbing though it was certainly obvious. The movie was mediocre and the stage show was pretty bad. I just don’t think at this point in time the Music Hall could have shown anything else. There just wasn’t any product that would have been suitable for the place. The effects of the collapse of the studio system were hitting the Hall especially hard just then. Last night TCM showed their CG doc including shots of the crowds going into the Hall for the Phil Story and North by NW. Talk about eating yourself up over what you missed.

RobertEndres on March 24, 2005 at 6:25 am

“White Christmas” was the only film to run in horizontal VistaVision at the Hall. Century did produce a VistaVision projector with an optical soundhead in the usual position, althouth the feed reel was under the soundhead. I had the oportunity to run a Century VistaVision projector (without the soundhead) to do effect dailies on “Men In Black”,“Jungle 2 Jungle” and “Michael”. It was an interesting experience, since a misframe looks like a split screen, and framing is left to right rather than up and down. The Hall had 35mm mag capabilities from the start of CinemaScope, although weak on the surround channel. There were actually two complete mag systems installed as well as two optical systems with a switch that literally switched between optical system #1 and #2 and mag system #1 and #2. The Hall was always big on back-up. I have a picture of Ben Olevsky in his office with a wall of RCA sound racks installed behind him. All four projectors had mag penthouses installed. When the fifth projector was installed (where one of the VistaVision projectors had been placed), it didn’t have mag capability, but we still had the three 35/70mm machines and retained the 35mm penthouse on the #1 projector. In the VistaVision section of the American Widescreen Museum site, I think there’s a picture of one of the VistaVision projectors at the Hall, and you can just see the gel changer on one of the high-intensity effects spots next to it.

VincentParisi on March 23, 2005 at 1:07 pm

Frederic Kellers was also involved in the choice of Robin and Marian as the Easter 76 show. I remember him expressing his dismay at the absolutely abysmal turnout for that one and staring at him in total disbelief wondering well what in the world did you expect!

Vito on March 23, 2005 at 12:39 pm

REndres, thanks a lot for the VistaVision info. You have confirmed what I belived the facts to be relating to that. I assume then no other films were ever projected in VistaVision at the hall? I understood Century did eventually build a VistaVision projector complete with a sound head shortly after “White Christmas”. I recall them being installed at the Paramount, RCMH never installed them?
One other question regarding magneic prints, did RCMH play all of those great MGM musicals of the 50s and 60s in four track mag or perspecta? or for that matter prior to the 35/70mm projector installations, did they ever use four track mag at all?.